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How Intuitive Are Macs Really?

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Re: How Intuitive Are Macs Really?

#181

Post by handrous »

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #160
handrous wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The filesystem is super confusing to tons of users. The reason people put crap all over their desktops is because they "lose" it if they put it anywhere else, while the desktop always stays "where it is". I don't think anyone's come up with a good solution to that problem, yet (Apple's isn't very good, and Windows' similar moves with its defaults aren't any better) and we're far enough into computers being common tha…

Believe it or not, the way the filesystem worked on the original Mac operating system was that things did stay where you put them. Open a disk and the folders on it could be put anywhere in that 2D space, and each folder's contents could similarly be anywhere in their virtual 2D space, and each disk/folder opened in its own window that even re-opened in exactly the same position with exactly the same size as when you…

That's a good point—that's probably the closest a file manager has come to being truly usable by most folks.

Relatedly, IMO iOS took a huge step backwards in UX when iOS7 moved away from a highly spatial interaction metaphor for practically the entire OS—by which I don't mean the skeuomorphism, exactly, but things like folders sliding the screen "open" when tapped, so that they had a sense of physical location within the main screen. Or "slide to unlock" looking like a physical slider so you didn't even need to read it to know what to do. The loss of the security blanket that was the physical (or at least faux-physical) home button has hurt it, too.

Re: How Intuitive Are Macs Really?

#182

Post by screye »

rchaud wrote: post #14

I bought a Mac in 2014 after a lifetime of using Windows. I never understood why people called it easier to use than Windows. Maybe this sentiment is a holdover from an earlier era when people would mindlessly run executables and zip files attached in emails and AIM messages. From a UI perspective, it's 90% identical to windows. From a UX perspective though, something fundamental like Finder is still not up to the jo…

I for the love of me, can't understand how to use a macbook. I don't mean being productive on it. I mean: how to open something or how clicks work.

It might simply be the fact that I've never used a mac as a primary device. But, clicks, navigating the explorer and settings menus seem to be a lot simpler on windows. It also seems to be almost malicious in punishing you for using something that isn't a 1st party application.

The only other time a software has made me feel so incompetent is shitty TV UIs and Snapchat.

I can see why it is loved by people deeply invested in the walled garden and programmers who get a happy marriage of Linux and mature consumer OS. But, I would find it hard to recommend a macbook to someone who didn't lie in those 2 camps.

Re: How Intuitive Are Macs Really?

#183

Post by [deleted] »

tpmoney wrote: post #87
asattarmd wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The worst: pressing Enter to rename a file in finder. Command + Down arrow to open it. WTF!

Command-up arrow moves up a directory level. Command-down arrow makes a logical choice for moving down a directory level, and since moving down a directory is the same as opening that directory, it follows command down would also open a file. Whether renaming as “enter” is a good shortcut or not, I think the navigation ones are perfectly reasonable in that if you learn one of them, it’s opposite is easily guessed.

[deleted]

Re: How Intuitive Are Macs Really?

#184

Post by Steltek »

rapsey wrote: post #89
geraneum wrote: post #84

If a certain way of doing things which I am very much used to does not apply to a different environment, it does not mean the subject is not intuitive whether it's macOS, Windows, etc. To me, intuitiveness means how easy it is to operate the system correctly without prior training. Honestly, for a non-tech savvy, macOS and Windows both have many quirks and don't let me start with Linux distros (Fedora is my daily dri…

What keeps me on macOS is keyboard shortcuts. Typing on windows or linux is so much more annoying.

GP's point is that things like favorable shortcuts are due to your personal background.

For myself, I was forced on to Mac and the shortcuts are excruciatingly frustrating to use. It feels like I've forgotten how to use a computer sometimes! I prefer non-native apps and overlaid keymaps (in VScode, etc) as much as possible to escape from them.

Re: How Intuitive Are Macs Really?

#185

Post by FabHK »

BurningFrog wrote: post #121
agustif wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1) Just use [spacebar] on any view to open up the image in spotlight? The problem with the mac is that much has been done on top of older patterns, etc.... If you're a hardcore user though, I'd take Mac over windows or linux any day.

I've used Macs since 1988, and had no idea this hidden feature existed! UI features don't just need to work well, they also need to be discoverable, or they might as well not exist. The old school Apple was good at that stuff. Recent decades, not so much. PS Thanks for teaching me this trick!

Quick Look is super useful indeed. Introduced 2007. Plugins make it even more useful (eg for json, torrents, etc.)

https://github.com/sindresorhus/quick-look-plugins

Re: How Intuitive Are Macs Really?

#186

Post by geraltofrivia »

amelius wrote: post #141
TulliusCicero wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, by default Finder seems to hide directory structure from you. This seems to be Apple thinking it'll confuse people if they can see 'up' directories, but I think just as often it confuses people like me who are trying and failing to go up. I use all three major desktop OSes regularly now, and overall Windows just feels like the most user-friendly and straightforward, though of course it too has issues (e.g. vari…

> Oh, and Linux seems to be by far the least stable. I have apps freezing the whole damn computer way more often there than the other two. How often is that? What hardware do you run it on? What distro do you use?

Not OP, but I run elementary OS 5.1.7 Hera, built on Ubuntu 18.04.4 LTS, Linux 5.4.0-65-generic.

Its more stable than it used to be, but the desktop manager still keeps hanging every fortnight or so. Changing the brightness, right after unlocking my laptop is a recipe for getting frustrated, and eventually having to hard restart the computer. Other micro issues pop up every now and then.

Re: How Intuitive Are Macs Really?

#187

Post by yesenadam »

ninkendo wrote: post #74
zabzonk wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Windows has a Command key?

You can plug a mac keyboard into a Windows PC… I think you’re missing the joke though.

Hehe I've been on Mac minis for nearly 10 years now, always with a PC-clone keyboard: "Window key" is my CMD key.

Re: How Intuitive Are Macs Really?

#188

Post by [deleted] »

michaelmrose wrote: post #176
AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Believe it or not, the way the filesystem worked on the original Mac operating system was that things did stay where you put them. Open a disk and the folders on it could be put anywhere in that 2D space, and each folder's contents could similarly be anywhere in their virtual 2D space, and each disk/folder opened in its own window that even re-opened in exactly the same position with exactly the same size as when you…

Gnome did this in 3.0 and called it spatial browsing. It was awful with a hierarchy 5 folders deep you ended up opening 5 windows.

[deleted]

Re: How Intuitive Are Macs Really?

#189

Post by Popegaf »

They aren't.

The first time using it about 10 years ago was confusing:

Single button mouse --> no instructions, can't find out how to right click

Double click on window --> fullscreen; uh... move mouse around edges to find how to get back to other windows

Drag window to side of the screen to split window --> nothing; search the application menu --> nothing; Cmd+Right? --> nothing; oook, I have to actually resize everything manually

Try to install software from app store:

- you must login --> failed (server was down that day) - search "how to install XYZ on mac" --> download .dmg and follow these steps

"Natural scrolling" still confuses me everytime I touch one even after a whole week it didn't feel "natural". Especially diagonal scrolls felt off; does moving your 2 fingers right scroll left or right?

I remember trying to help out a friend download music on her iphone to play it there. We finally had to download it on the mac, import it into itunes and sync the iphone with it. No idea if things are better.

More recently, video calling was quite the experience. The browser couldn't access the camera, so a popup came up and I had to restart the browser. Then I wanted to share my screen, another popup came up follow by another restart. Finally, I wanted to share audio from a short clip being played, well that isn't in mac so some trial version of something had to be downloaded and I never actually got it to work.

Re: How Intuitive Are Macs Really?

#190

Post by allie1 »

It’s a commercial linux distro without bugs, and pretty. As a dev, I like how most things work exactly as they would on a linux host, yet the laptop (hardware) is decent and usability of the OS on par.

For non-devs, just the shared folders via icloud, airdrop, photos shared/synced - most things that aren’t even that advanced bring most value imo

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