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Baltic airlines reroute flights to avoid Belarus airspace

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Re: Baltic airlines reroute flights to avoid Belarus airspace

#121

Post by input_sh »

jeltz wrote: post #112
raverbashing wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good, so you're in favour of an EU army? Armed invasion of Bielorussia to kidnap the guy back? The geopolitical armchair experts complain more about responses than actually giving realistic suggestions to give. (Sure, we can cut Belarus out, and see thousands of "Russian tourists" go for a holiday there right after - maybe that would be a good response?). And yes, you won't see me defending Borrell.

I agree. There is a lot of armchair whining here. Are people really in favour of an invasion of Belarus?

Why are you talking like there's no middle between not doing anything and a full on invasion?

From the top of my head:

- Divert EU planes to avoid Belarus.

- Prevent Belarus' aeroplanes from flying over the EU.

- Increase sanctions towards Belarus officials.

etc etc

Re: Baltic airlines reroute flights to avoid Belarus airspace

#122

Post by raverbashing »

input_sh wrote: post #121
jeltz wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. There is a lot of armchair whining here. Are people really in favour of an invasion of Belarus?

Why are you talking like there's no middle between not doing anything and a full on invasion? From the top of my head: - Divert EU planes to avoid Belarus. - Prevent Belarus' aeroplanes from flying over the EU. - Increase sanctions towards Belarus officials. etc etc

Thanks, yes, these are realistic, and might be in the way of being implemented.

(Also probably will get counted as "toothless". That's kinda of my point)

Re: Baltic airlines reroute flights to avoid Belarus airspace

#124

Post by [deleted] »

Iv wrote: post #117
ramblerman wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like that idea, this is the perfect *nonviolent* answer to this. The EU's response is so important here, they have already proved time and time again they are a dog which is all bark and no bite. I'm sure China and Turkey are watching eagerly. It doesn't have to be a military response, but no response or the typical waving the finger in the air, can not be afforded here.

> they have already proved time and time again they are a dog which is all bark and no bite. People keep saying that as if that was a kind of universally acknowledged wisdom. Here is a map of the 39 countries targeted by European sanctions (not counting the ones specifically targeting ISIS territories or various regions of Ukraine): https://sanctionsmap.eu/#/main There has been sanctions against Belarus for a while,…

[deleted]

Re: Baltic airlines reroute flights to avoid Belarus airspace

#125

Post by ols »

gostsamo wrote: post #108
ols wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

„The Common Foreign and Security Policy […] deals only with a specific part of the EU's external relations, which domains include mainly Trade and Commercial Policy and other areas such as funding to third countries, etc” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Foreign_and_Security_Po...

This is a random result when you search for Borrell in Moscow. Look for his behavior in Turkey if you want some more examples of how random this guy is while he is considered an EU representative. His position requires for him to coordinate responses of the 27, but he is just wandering around wasting time and resources. As far as the EU is an economic powerhouse, letting dictators do whatever they want while allowed…

Some EU member states (Hungary, Poland) are very much against handing over any diplomatic power to the High Representative. Hungarian government is basically acting as a Putin proxy here and Polish ruling party feeds on constant conflict.

Re: Baltic airlines reroute flights to avoid Belarus airspace

#126

Post by egao1980 »

sneak wrote: post #14

And, yet, we didn’t do this to Austria (or any of the other countries in Europe that cancelled use of the airspace) when the plane suspected to be carrying Snowden (but wasn’t, and was actually carrying a head of state) was forced down in Vienna based on a phone call from the US, to be swatted upon landing. Only the “bad guys” are terrorists when they do this. The double standard here in the west is astounding. The p…

In 2016 Ukraine downed Belorussian plane using fighter jet threats. Nobody cared. https://www.refworld.org/docid/58407f0a4.html

Re: Baltic airlines reroute flights to avoid Belarus airspace

#127

Post by trhway »

arodyginc wrote: post #26
proxysna wrote: post #16

This affects me directly since i am working outside of Belarus now and rely on air travel to visit my family, still this feels like the only reasonable answer to KGB messing with airlines. I am expecting that most planes to Belarus, from EU are going to be cancelled and people will have to reroute their travel through Moscow. In general it is terrifying how far my country went down the path of turning into another Tu…

[flagged]

>don't mess with Lucashenko and then you can fly over there just fine

the world is full of Lukashenko-s. We've all been critical of Saudis/MBS for example. What happens if your plane unexpectedly lands for some technical reason in Saudi Arabia and they check your internet postings? I'm pretty sure that that Internet criticism of MBS is a crime in SA. May be they wouldn't touch a US citizen, yet they would have no issues with a Russian, or any other shithole country, citizen like me.

Re: Baltic airlines reroute flights to avoid Belarus airspace

#128

Post by ramblerman »

Iv wrote: post #117
ramblerman wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like that idea, this is the perfect *nonviolent* answer to this. The EU's response is so important here, they have already proved time and time again they are a dog which is all bark and no bite. I'm sure China and Turkey are watching eagerly. It doesn't have to be a military response, but no response or the typical waving the finger in the air, can not be afforded here.

> they have already proved time and time again they are a dog which is all bark and no bite. People keep saying that as if that was a kind of universally acknowledged wisdom. Here is a map of the 39 countries targeted by European sanctions (not counting the ones specifically targeting ISIS territories or various regions of Ukraine): https://sanctionsmap.eu/#/main There has been sanctions against Belarus for a while,…

I'm an EU citizen we obviously have a different viewpoint on this but the link you sent to me shows precisely all bark in my opinion.

Holding off on a few weapons exports here and there is meaningless.

> People keep saying that

If it's the general concensus there may be some reason for that. I'm sure Belarus wouldnt try this with a US plane.

> Turkey doesn't have to "watch", they also received sanctions after the drilling standoff two years ago.

If the reaction to hijacking an EU plane flying from one EU nation to another is indeed just some export/import sanctions, then yes I do think Turkey will find that interesting.

Re: Baltic airlines reroute flights to avoid Belarus airspace

#129

Post by BelenusMordred »

maratc wrote: post #8

This will likely have no consequences to the regime in Belarus, while increasing costs to these Baltic airlines. A policy that might achieve something would be if the Baltic states, together with Poland and Ukraine, would close their airspace to Belavia planes, until the detained passenger is delivered to his destination in Vilnius. This will increase costs to Belarusian airlines, which would be a problem to the regi…

> no consequences

MH17 being shot down meant a huge diversion of flights over a well trafficked route. It's not huge but the overflight fees add up after a while if people avoid crossing your borders, effective ATC in most countries rely on these aeronautical charges coming in every year.

While the effects might not be immediate and a stubborn government can shrug it off, there is certainly long-term consequences if airlines make a decision to declare a country off-limits for routes.

Re: Baltic airlines reroute flights to avoid Belarus airspace

#130

Post by dvfjsdhgfv »

thinkingemote wrote: post #31
golergka wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

European diplomats being "strongly concerned" have long become a running joke here in Russia: https://twitter.com/ISEUConcerned I sincerely hope that this statement finally gets backed up by some decisive action that can put real pressure on these dictators, but I don't get my hopes up.

I know that people can joke about the west in Russia but are people allowed to make jokes about their own government in Russia and in the associated eastern european states? Is it like China yet? I'm guessing not as there's no visible list of banned words and phrases, but we don't see (in HN) much criticism of Russia, Belarus from there, just attacks on the hypocrisy of the West. Do you see it headed towards China, w…

> are people allowed to make jokes about their own government in Russia and in the associated eastern european states?

What "associated astern european states" do you mean?

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