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Baltic airlines reroute flights to avoid Belarus airspace

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Re: Baltic airlines reroute flights to avoid Belarus airspace

#111

Post by 4cao »

chinathrow wrote: post #3
flixic wrote: post #2

In case you missed, yesterday a plane flying from Athens to Vilnius was intercepted by Belarusian fighter jet and a helicopter and landed in Minsk, to arrest an opposition journalist. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-57219860

https://www.aeroinside.com/15715/ryanair-sun-b738-near-minsk...

This appears to be copied word-for-word from the Aviation Herald, the original source: http://avherald.com/h?article=4e7d7208

Edit: seems this is allowed by AV Herald under certain circumstances [1]:

> If you purchase a subscription, you are allowed to republish any textual information provided by our articles during your subscription period in any form within your publication - you are allowed to copy and paste our articles onto your website/newspaper/magazine - provided you credit The Aviation Herald properly by providing a link to our original article.

And the footer of that article says:

> This article is published under license from Avherald.com. © of text by Avherald.com.

Anyway, it's probably better to link directly to the original (also a lighter website).

1. http://avherald.com/h?faq=

Re: Baltic airlines reroute flights to avoid Belarus airspace

#112

Post by jeltz »

raverbashing wrote: post #91
tacker2000 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a EU citizen, this is quite hilarious. The EU is so toothless it hurts.

Good, so you're in favour of an EU army? Armed invasion of Bielorussia to kidnap the guy back? The geopolitical armchair experts complain more about responses than actually giving realistic suggestions to give. (Sure, we can cut Belarus out, and see thousands of "Russian tourists" go for a holiday there right after - maybe that would be a good response?). And yes, you won't see me defending Borrell.

I agree. There is a lot of armchair whining here. Are people really in favour of an invasion of Belarus?

Re: Baltic airlines reroute flights to avoid Belarus airspace

#113

Post by toyg »

enriquto wrote: post #33
sneak wrote: post #14

And, yet, we didn’t do this to Austria (or any of the other countries in Europe that cancelled use of the airspace) when the plane suspected to be carrying Snowden (but wasn’t, and was actually carrying a head of state) was forced down in Vienna based on a phone call from the US, to be swatted upon landing. Only the “bad guys” are terrorists when they do this. The double standard here in the west is astounding. The p…

> And, yet, we didn’t do this to Austria (or any of the other countries in Europe that cancelled use of the airspace) France and Spain, notably. It was a disgusting violation.

Italy and Portugal too. Shameful page of NATO history, that.

Re: Baltic airlines reroute flights to avoid Belarus airspace

#116

Post by hutzlibu »

heavenlyblue wrote: post #57
golergka wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

European diplomats being "strongly concerned" have long become a running joke here in Russia: https://twitter.com/ISEUConcerned I sincerely hope that this statement finally gets backed up by some decisive action that can put real pressure on these dictators, but I don't get my hopes up.

What is the probability of this account being owned by Russian government? I would say 99% and you’re just perpetuating the same propaganda.

Why would a russian troll argue for stronger action agains russian allies?

Re: Baltic airlines reroute flights to avoid Belarus airspace

#117

Post by Iv »

ramblerman wrote: post #64
maratc wrote: post #8

This will likely have no consequences to the regime in Belarus, while increasing costs to these Baltic airlines. A policy that might achieve something would be if the Baltic states, together with Poland and Ukraine, would close their airspace to Belavia planes, until the detained passenger is delivered to his destination in Vilnius. This will increase costs to Belarusian airlines, which would be a problem to the regi…

I like that idea, this is the perfect *nonviolent* answer to this. The EU's response is so important here, they have already proved time and time again they are a dog which is all bark and no bite. I'm sure China and Turkey are watching eagerly. It doesn't have to be a military response, but no response or the typical waving the finger in the air, can not be afforded here.

> they have already proved time and time again they are a dog which is all bark and no bite.

People keep saying that as if that was a kind of universally acknowledged wisdom.

Here is a map of the 39 countries targeted by European sanctions (not counting the ones specifically targeting ISIS territories or various regions of Ukraine): https://sanctionsmap.eu/#/main

There has been sanctions against Belarus for a while, suspended when they freed political prisoners, reinstated in light of the recent crackdown on elections. Here is the list of the 88 persons and 7 legal entities under EU sanctions (well technically, Council of Europe): https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=CEL...

Turkey doesn't have to "watch", they also received sanctions after the drilling standoff two years ago.

Re: Baltic airlines reroute flights to avoid Belarus airspace

#118

Post by toyg »

vetinari wrote: post #84
TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's also possible to disagree with both actions, which handily destroys the "But you did it first" attempted defence.

It is possible to disagree with both actions; but it doesn't destroy "but you did it first" defense. The precedent[1] happened and was generally accepted, so unless you want to go the quod licet Iovi, non licet bovi route, it is supposed to be acceptable defense. The principal way is to reject that defense for all cases, including the first one. [1] And not just Morales' plane; this happened more often than that. Mor…

Yeah, the Snowden affaire should have been the impetus for a new convention on civil airspace. It would have been a good chance to also mop up some of the worst abuses post-9/11, and re-commit US and NATO to a respectful and democratic future. Sadly the chance was completely missed, even after the red rage for the leak had somewhat dissipated. And here we are.

Re: Baltic airlines reroute flights to avoid Belarus airspace

#119

Post by amelius »

erentz wrote: post #40

It’s odd to me that the Ryanair flight yesterday was already closer to its destination of Vilnius than Minsk when it turned around. Ryanair said that the crew had been "notified by Belarus (Air Traffic Control) of a potential security threat on board and were instructed to divert to the nearest airport, Minsk". So they didn’t have an incident onboard? There were no hijackers claiming to have a bomb? Just ATC telling…

You want to fly over uninhabited areas. Distance comes next.

Re: Baltic airlines reroute flights to avoid Belarus airspace

#120

Post by jopsen »

tacker2000 wrote: post #41
golergka wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

European diplomats being "strongly concerned" have long become a running joke here in Russia: https://twitter.com/ISEUConcerned I sincerely hope that this statement finally gets backed up by some decisive action that can put real pressure on these dictators, but I don't get my hopes up.

As a EU citizen, this is quite hilarious. The EU is so toothless it hurts.

Sometimes it's the slow and steady diplomacy that affects the biggest change over time.

What good is quick action going to do?

It might be better to let this guide trading policies in the future.

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