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Tim Cook’s Fortnite trial testimony was unexpectedly revealing

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Re: Tim Cook’s Fortnite trial testimony was unexpectedly revealing

#191

Post by merrywhether »

rdedev wrote: post #119
akg_67 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope multiple App Stores don’t become a thing on iOS. The reason I like iPhone is that I am assured that apps I download from App Store are not shit and curated by Apple. Apple has vested interest to keep apps made available to be clean and not going to compromise iPhone. Android play store, in comparison, is full of crap and free for all, basically buyer (or downloader) beware. Phone is used by too broad of user g…

I don't get this argument. How can an alternative app Store affect the quality of the Apple app Store ? The alternate app Store is not gonna come installed by default. No one is gonna mistake the alternative app Store for the apple one. Apple is gonna make sure of that. Apple can even put up loads of warnings and dark UI stuff when installing an alternate app Store to dissuade the "noob" users.

Hypothetical progression: Epic sets up alternative App Store which becomes the only source of Fortnite 2.0, which is popular enough to drive installs of new alt store. Some other newly-popular viral app comes along (probably a social app that causes its users to exert pressure on their social group to join) and gambles on going with the Epic store only, piggybacking on Fortnite’s beachhead. Repeat. This process normalizes an alt store, forcing iOS customers to have to choose between trusting a new source vs missing out on apps. They can currently miss out on Android-only apps, but at least currently 99.9% of apps that run on iOS come from the single “trusted” store.

Another maybe-more-realistic version of this would be if some business software used their power over line workers to install things (since end-users are not really the customers in corporate software sales). Microsoft sets up their own store as the only source of Office Redux, and millions of iOS users are forced into this store via their employers. Same process as above: beachhead, gamble, dilution of Apple’s store.

It’s not hard to see how the process could snowball, though it’s certainly not guaranteed as there must be the right combination of events.

Re: Tim Cook’s Fortnite trial testimony was unexpectedly revealing

#192

Post by criddell »

SheinhardtWigCo wrote: post #76
newsclues wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple doesn’t take a cut of transactions I make in my iPhones browser.

This is why Apple holds back important APIs from their browser, years after they are available in other browsers: fast 3D graphics, offline storage and compute, push notifications, to name a few.

I might buy into that theory if they didn't have Apple Pay in the browser.

Re: Tim Cook’s Fortnite trial testimony was unexpectedly revealing

#193

Post by nr2x »

Hamuko wrote: post #190
an_opabinia wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The average iPhone user would not be able to tell the difference between an official App Store and a sophisticated copy.

Even though one of them is preloaded on the device and the other one has to be separately added?

Depends a) on who is doing the adding and b) if they know what they are adding.

Re: Tim Cook’s Fortnite trial testimony was unexpectedly revealing

#194

Post by fastaguy88 »

akudha wrote: post #144
jrsj wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because my grandma is clueless and I give her an iPhone so she doesn’t install malware like she managed to on her Android phone

So the solution is to force majority of the population to use Apple store, to protect minority of the population who aren't tech savvy? If Apple allowed other stores, before a user can install an app from non-Apple store, iOS can show a message saying the app is not from Apple's holy store and that it is users responsibility to make sure the app is trustworthy? This won't be pretty, but at least it is a compromise. T…

Pretty hard to know who the minority is in this case. Based on other HN opinions about Apple products, there seems to be a consensus that Apple customers are mostly not tech savvy. If they were, they wouldn’t buy Apple stuff.

Re: Tim Cook’s Fortnite trial testimony was unexpectedly revealing

#195

Post by d3nj4l »

xyzzy_plugh wrote: post #158
smnrchrds wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have seen this time after time, that when the question of Apple store comes up, a top-rated comment always makes a comparison with game consoles to argue it is all fair. I don't personally believe the comparison makes sense, but many on HN do. So I am going to ask, how is this different from PS/Xbox/etc? If the game consoles still 'own' the device after you have bought it, e.g. when PS disabled Linux installation f…

I can buy a game from a store as well. Or a friend. And sell my games as well. I can choose which console I buy to consume these games on. It's a game-centric system. Sure, the path consoles are heading down will look like the current Apple situation very soon. And I think the same criticisms apply then, too.

> I can buy a game from a store as well.

Console games sold in stores pay a licensing fee to the console maker, so the maker still gets their 30%.

> I can choose which console I buy to consume these games on.

Not really? You can't play the new Demons' Souls on an Xbox, no matter how much you want to. You also can't get Gamepass on a PS. Console sales are driven by exclusives.

Re: Tim Cook’s Fortnite trial testimony was unexpectedly revealing

#196

Post by rdedev »

0xEFF wrote: post #140
rdedev wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't get this argument. How can an alternative app Store affect the quality of the Apple app Store ? The alternate app Store is not gonna come installed by default. No one is gonna mistake the alternative app Store for the apple one. Apple is gonna make sure of that. Apple can even put up loads of warnings and dark UI stuff when installing an alternate app Store to dissuade the "noob" users.

Suppose you install a messaging app to talk to your friend. How do you know they installed their copy from the good App Store and not the bad one?

Most messaging apps are centralized. Some form of server side checking can be easily added to make sure the client is legit and not tampered with. Same form of checking thing if it's P2P but it would be very cumbersome.

Now it is possible that someones has cracked the encrypted messaged payload and figured out how to fool the client authenticity checking part but at that point you are probably dealing with a state actor and even apple with their secure app Store cannot save you.

Re: Tim Cook’s Fortnite trial testimony was unexpectedly revealing

#197

Post by lemoncucumber »

tyingq wrote: post #185
karmakaze wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are other ways if you're honestly trying to be fair. eBay for instance could have made 10% of (price+shipping) exempt assuming 10% was the nominal fraction before abuses.

I never understood why eBay didn't resell shipping to their sellers. They could have gotten very favorable rates from the carriers with that kind of leverage.

> When you print a shipping label on eBay, our negotiated rates let you save money relative to what you would pay at the post office or to a carrier for most services, and you'll save time by not having to stand in line. The cost of the label is then charged to your invoice, PayPal account, or Processing funds if you're a managed payments seller.

Source: https://www.ebay.com/help/selling/shipping-items/labels-pack...

Re: Tim Cook’s Fortnite trial testimony was unexpectedly revealing

#198

Post by nr2x »

sokoloff wrote: post #118
aero-glide2 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not give customers the choice to run other app stores? Imagine if all the software on your laptop must be downloaded from the windows store..

Customers have that choice today. On the Android platform.

Which is partially why Apple makes it very hard to move to Android. No iMessage, Calendars, Contacts, iTunes Purchases, etc.

Re: Tim Cook’s Fortnite trial testimony was unexpectedly revealing

#199

Post by tyingq »

lemoncucumber wrote: post #197
tyingq wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never understood why eBay didn't resell shipping to their sellers. They could have gotten very favorable rates from the carriers with that kind of leverage.

> When you print a shipping label on eBay, our negotiated rates let you save money relative to what you would pay at the post office or to a carrier for most services, and you'll save time by not having to stand in line. The cost of the label is then charged to your invoice, PayPal account, or Processing funds if you're a managed payments seller. Source: https://www.ebay.com/help/selling/shipping-items/labels-pack...

Ah, well then that would have been the easy path. No commission if you pass-through charge eBay rates.

Re: Tim Cook’s Fortnite trial testimony was unexpectedly revealing

#200

Post by bryan0 »

ohgodplsno wrote: post #88
tomp wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're making Tim Cook sound stupid and/or evil, but he does have a point. > If customers really value real, safe drugs, even if there's multiple drug suppliers (some offering fake, unsafe drugs), people should still go to a pharmacy? > It seems like a decision that they shouldn't have to make. > Will people not be able to distinguish between safe drugs and fake unsafe drugs? > They've never had to do it before.

Equating alternative app stores to literal drug dealers. I don't think I even need to say anything to point out how bad of an argument it is.

You’re right. The counter examples here are comparing the availability of non-Apple approved apps to matters of life and death. It’s disingenuous.
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