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Tim Cook’s Fortnite trial testimony was unexpectedly revealing

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Re: Tim Cook’s Fortnite trial testimony was unexpectedly revealing

#141

Post by kalleboo »

hmate9 wrote: post #14
Nextgrid wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you explain that the majority of apps are contaminated by spyware like the Facebook SDK and dozens of other equivalents? (which for the record is in breach of the GDPR and Apple could be considered complicit if they allow this while at the same time requiring all apps to comply with local laws and has removed apps who break or could be used to break the law before) How do you explain scam apps that deliberatel…

I would match rather sign up for a subscription through the iOS ecosystem, where I can easily and realisably cancel that subscription through Apple themselves as opposed to entering my credit card info and figuring out how to cancel for each and every application differently.

Personally I would prefer to sign up to a subscription via PayPal, where I can easily manage the subscription though a web site instead opening the "Music" app (!?!) and navigating through that nightmare

Re: Tim Cook’s Fortnite trial testimony was unexpectedly revealing

#142

Post by konschubert »

smnrchrds wrote: post #128
wccrawford wrote: post #4

Other news on this has quotes from Tim Cook saying that they'd have to find a way to track purchases on IOS and bill developers so that Apple still gets their cut when using other payment processors. For me, this is way over the line. If they want to charge developers to be on their store, fine. I don't have a problem with that. And charging for using them as a payment processor makes sense. Charging for using Apple…

I have seen this time after time, that when the question of Apple store comes up, a top-rated comment always makes a comparison with game consoles to argue it is all fair. I don't personally believe the comparison makes sense, but many on HN do. So I am going to ask, how is this different from PS/Xbox/etc? If the game consoles still 'own' the device after you have bought it, e.g. when PS disabled Linux installation f…

Game consoles have negative margins, it’s their business model.

If apple started selling iphones at negative margins maybe they would have a better moral stand in charging a tax.

Re: Tim Cook’s Fortnite trial testimony was unexpectedly revealing

#143

Post by tomp »

ohgodplsno wrote: post #88
tomp wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're making Tim Cook sound stupid and/or evil, but he does have a point. > If customers really value real, safe drugs, even if there's multiple drug suppliers (some offering fake, unsafe drugs), people should still go to a pharmacy? > It seems like a decision that they shouldn't have to make. > Will people not be able to distinguish between safe drugs and fake unsafe drugs? > They've never had to do it before.

Equating alternative app stores to literal drug dealers. I don't think I even need to say anything to point out how bad of an argument it is.

I'm attacking the argument in general, not a specific instance of it.

Re: Tim Cook’s Fortnite trial testimony was unexpectedly revealing

#144

Post by akudha »

jrsj wrote: post #39
aero-glide2 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not give customers the choice to run other app stores? Imagine if all the software on your laptop must be downloaded from the windows store..

Because my grandma is clueless and I give her an iPhone so she doesn’t install malware like she managed to on her Android phone

So the solution is to force majority of the population to use Apple store, to protect minority of the population who aren't tech savvy?

If Apple allowed other stores, before a user can install an app from non-Apple store, iOS can show a message saying the app is not from Apple's holy store and that it is users responsibility to make sure the app is trustworthy? This won't be pretty, but at least it is a compromise.

They want their 30% cut and they want to tightly control everything. That is the only true, logical reason. Everything else is a flimsy excuse

Re: Tim Cook’s Fortnite trial testimony was unexpectedly revealing

#145

Post by coldtea »

SheinhardtWigCo wrote: post #76
newsclues wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple doesn’t take a cut of transactions I make in my iPhones browser.

This is why Apple holds back important APIs from their browser, years after they are available in other browsers: fast 3D graphics, offline storage and compute, push notifications, to name a few.

Yes. To avoid the crappification of mobile, where everything it's a bunch of slow, memory and battery draining Electron apps, doing whatever they want, each with custom UI...

Re: Tim Cook’s Fortnite trial testimony was unexpectedly revealing

#146

Post by cnlwsu »

ilovwindows wrote: post #108

30% of a revenue is extortion. Why should an app developer pay that fee? It's like owning almost half of a business. Apple is the most developer hostile company.It charges $100 every year to devs for developing apps to it's platform. And additionally charge another 30% of their business. The worst thing is apps cannot use third party payments, why? Some people argue it's for security. I disagree. It's greed. Tim Cook…

Xbox, steam, google play store, Nintendo and sony are comparable. Same percentages and everything, 30% is kinda game industry standard. Game engines starting to take bigger cut too.

Re: Tim Cook’s Fortnite trial testimony was unexpectedly revealing

#147

Post by jhgb »

0xEFF wrote: post #125
wccrawford wrote: post #4

Other news on this has quotes from Tim Cook saying that they'd have to find a way to track purchases on IOS and bill developers so that Apple still gets their cut when using other payment processors. For me, this is way over the line. If they want to charge developers to be on their store, fine. I don't have a problem with that. And charging for using them as a payment processor makes sense. Charging for using Apple…

> If a developer isn't using that infrastructure, they don't owe anything. How would a developer build an iOS app without using any system calls or OS frameworks? Xcode? “Infrastructure” is a blurry concept in such a deeply integrated system.

How is infrastructure "a blurry concept"? If it doesn't touch Apple's servers, it's none of Apple's business.

Re: Tim Cook’s Fortnite trial testimony was unexpectedly revealing

#148

Post by jhgb »

matwood wrote: post #107
belltaco wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine Microsoft doing this on Windows.

MS and Windows is simply not related to the Apple situation, unless MS decided to only allow Windows on its own hardware thus creating a closed ecosystem. The closest analogy to Apple is the game console industry. Even then it's a different scale. IMO, the App Store situation is an entirely new class of problem unlikely to be solved in this case. It doesn't easily fall under existing monopoly regulation, and does hav…

> unless MS decided to only allow Windows on its own hardware thus creating a closed ecosystem.

I presume this was what the word "imagine" meant?

Re: Tim Cook’s Fortnite trial testimony was unexpectedly revealing

#149

Post by coldtea »

SheinhardtWigCo wrote: post #101
slver wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you're saying is that you're OK with basically every single developer declaring their app as free, and then asking for your credit card, which will be processed in god knows what ways with most of them. So developers get in the shortterm to avoid the 30% cut. But what happens next? The payment process becomes much more cumbersome and much less safe for users. So they start avoiding any payments on iPhone. Apple…

This is FUD. Where is the evidence that letting developers choose how to process payments leads to rampant fraud? The online payment landscape outside the App Store is actually very safe for users. Try to cancel an in-app subscription without Googling how to do it. Good luck. Also, if you try using the store, you’ll see it’s not curated in any meaningful way. It’s full of garbage and fake reviews. Someone properly in…

>This is FUD. Where is the evidence that letting developers choose how to process payments leads to rampant fraud?

Here, for one: https://www.pandasecurity.com/en/mediacenter/mobile-security....

And in the general open web, for another, where online fraud is a multi-billion business...

Re: Tim Cook’s Fortnite trial testimony was unexpectedly revealing

#150

Post by moron4hire »

doikor wrote: post #78
newsclues wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple doesn’t take a cut of transactions I make in my iPhones browser.

And for how long would Safari on iOS keep up with new features or not get its performance nuked if for example games started to move into browser apps in major numbers on iOS. Apple itself said in the trial that games pretty much subsidize all other apps in terms of the money Apple makes out of the App Store. iOS Safari already lags behind in features. Apple would just make it even worse if it started to cost them si…

> Apple itself said in the trial that games pretty much subsidize all other apps in terms of the money Apple makes out of the App Store.

How does that work? It's not like Apple spent money to develop the games or the apps. And they are diverting money from the profitable games to the unprofitable apps. So how, exactly, are the games subsidizing the apps?

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