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Rich people do have trouble understanding what it's like to be poor

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Re: Rich people do have trouble understanding what it's like to be poor

#301

Post by sombremesa »

moralestapia wrote: post #76
GuB-42 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The worst part is that your wealthy family member is right. It is well illustrated by a quote from Terry Pratchett > The reason that the rich were so rich, Vimes reasoned, was because they managed to spend less money. > Take boots, for example. He earned thirty-eight dollars a month plus allowances. A really good pair of leather boots cost fifty dollars. But an affordable pair of boots, which were sort of OK for a se…

This is very naive and short-sighted, what percentage of your income go to boots? 1%? Your own example is talking about a ROI of 50USD in years, yeah sure ... that's wealth right there. People spend 90% of their wage on: rent, food and basic services. Can you be very smart and hack your way into halving your monthly rent? Can you be very smart and buy a really good potato that will last you for years? Can you be very…

You really can do all of these things and you don’t have to be very smart.

AirBnB exists, for example. There have been people who sleep in trains and rent out their apartment in their absence - it’s not fun, but it does reduce rent.

Potatoes can be grown, for example.

You can shop around for a place where utilities are included, for example - and many utility companies will give you rebates to do things that lower your bill.

None of these are really a path out of poverty though.

Re: Rich people do have trouble understanding what it's like to be poor

#302

Post by PeterisP »

GuB-42 wrote: post #45
FriedrichN wrote: post #3

A more distant but very wealthy family member once said that people wouldn't be so poor if they just saved up money. That perfectly illustrated the difficulty rich people have understanding poor people to me. I was really young, but that really stuck with me.

The worst part is that your wealthy family member is right. It is well illustrated by a quote from Terry Pratchett > The reason that the rich were so rich, Vimes reasoned, was because they managed to spend less money. > Take boots, for example. He earned thirty-eight dollars a month plus allowances. A really good pair of leather boots cost fifty dollars. But an affordable pair of boots, which were sort of OK for a se…

The same applies for increasing your income - if you can't afford to be without a job for some time, then you'll earn less money since you can't credibly negotiate a pay increase, your situation shows and you'll have to take a lesser offer.

Re: Rich people do have trouble understanding what it's like to be poor

#303

Post by gruez »

baq wrote: post #297
gruez wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn't answer my question at all.

Of course. Never meant to, just pointed to a direction that you seem to be unaware of.

>Never meant to, just pointed to a direction that you seem to be unaware of.

What gave you that impression? In my initial comment I acknowledged the concept of excusing suboptimal decision making due to "psychology of decision making when poor and struggling". How is that different than what you're saying?

Re: Rich people do have trouble understanding what it's like to be poor

#304

Post by ygram »

JKCalhoun wrote: post #138
elliekelly wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought this for the longest time. An embarrassingly long time. Then I volunteered with a program that helps people who qualify for EITC to prepare their taxes and budget how they’ll use their tax return to “get them out of their situation”. Person after person came in, we did their taxes, and then we went over their expenses and each case was a frustrating puzzle that was impossible to solve. There just wasn’t eno…

I found out when my mom kicked me out at 18 that there's a Catch-22 in the U.S. — a car costs money, you need a car to have a job. Actually you don't, of course. I had a 10-speed bike (remember those?) and a minimum wage job at a restaurant. I rented a room for $100/mo. from a young woman (maybe I was helping cover her rent?). I was able to swing tuition at a local community college. Man, I still remember riding the…

If you are injured or get sick in that situation you can fall into a hole that you never get out of.

Re: Rich people do have trouble understanding what it's like to be poor

#305

Post by baq »

refurb wrote: post #266
baq wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what do you recommend to people who are in a poverty cycle but want to feel they’re free humans, not economic slaves?

That’s a loaded question if I’ve ever heard one. Having a companion animal is also something a free human does. Should we tell people to get pets they can’t take care of? You premise that people are owed the opportunity to have children is a silly one. It’s not the parent that is the priority but the child.

I don't see why it is silly. I believe an opportunity to have children is an opportunity to have a purpose (not the purpose, note). I'm not saying that people who can't support children should have them - I'm saying that the society (i.e. other people) should help individuals to find their purpose. If making money and being rich is it for some, fine, no issue with that.

Re: Rich people do have trouble understanding what it's like to be poor

#306

Post by baq »

gruez wrote: post #303
baq wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course. Never meant to, just pointed to a direction that you seem to be unaware of.

>Never meant to, just pointed to a direction that you seem to be unaware of. What gave you that impression? In my initial comment I acknowledged the concept of excusing suboptimal decision making due to "psychology of decision making when poor and struggling". How is that different than what you're saying?

You call it 'excusing'.

Re: Rich people do have trouble understanding what it's like to be poor

#307

Post by rufus_foreman »

okareaman wrote: post #216

I grew up working poor, then struck it rich in the software biz and became a millionaire, then got sick and became homeless. My take on it is the rich and poor both struggle with money anxieties. A significant difference between being rich and being poor is the way other people treat you. When I was rich everyone wanted to be my friend and help me out. When I was poor I suffered judgements of all types from people; s…

>> When I was rich everyone wanted to be my friend and help me out

When you were rich, everyone wanted your money.

I was poor, my friends are from that time. Until you've been my friend when I'm down and out, you're just an acquaintance. If you want to know who your friends are, see who comes to get you out of jail at 3 AM.

Re: Rich people do have trouble understanding what it's like to be poor

#308

Post by BackBlast »

We focus way too much on money. There are a multitude of ways to be "rich" or "poor", money is simply one of them.

You can also be health poor, or health rich. Most rich people who are truly health poor would trade their wealth to be health rich in a heartbeat.

You can be time poor, no free time available. Sometimes people choose to be time poor by stuffing their schedule, other times it is an overload of responsibility via employment, school, family, and/or some other duty or expectation.

Love rich and love poor. Good friends and people who care about you in your life? No family support, no friends about? Actively despised or abused by family/friends?

There is the age spectrum, old/young. Though we all get that with coupled effects on a fairly equal footing, assuming we don't die young.

We all have long lists of needs, we also have varying pools of finite resources. When ANY of them are severely lacking or overdrawn in our lives it is a hard experience.

Re: Rich people do have trouble understanding what it's like to be poor

#309

Post by ac29 »

mechagodzilla wrote: post #294
kingsuper20 wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 1) the minimum wage doesn't get increased with inflation Sure it does. It's pretty much unchanged since 1980 (in a sawtooth, they build up some pressure due to inflation and then it jumps up due to legislation). 1960-1980 looks to average around 20% higher. It's funny how these charts differ. https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/01/04/5-facts-abo... https://image.cnbcfm.com/api/v1/image/103807392-min-wage-inf…

The important thing here is that it’s not indexed to inflation, it’s occasionally increased by legislation, so for most of the ~decade between bills, wages are decreasing in purchasing power for those people. I think you can make a much stronger case that it should track productivity than that it should track GDP, as the latter increases just by virtue of a growing population.

Minimum wage is indexed to inflation some places, such as the most populous state, California. (Minimum wage is actually currently increasing by $1/year, which is substantially more than inflation, and will start being indexed to inflation in 2024 when the minimum hits $15/hr)

Re: Rich people do have trouble understanding what it's like to be poor

#310

Post by _xy8h »

avianlyric wrote: post #96
mynameishere wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay...but on /r/personalfinance, people show up all the time with a litany of complaints and a litany of awful, awful budget mistakes they have no interest in fixing. 120/month cellphone, 400/month doordash, Dodge Charger with a 600/month note. And so on. each case was a frustrating puzzle What puzzled you? The necessities should never be a puzzle. If the rent, the food, the utilities, the insurance, and the day car…

And what if they already have a second and third job, have already started cutting back necessities. What do they do then? Starve?

Pretty much.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/19/walmart-and-mcdonalds-among-...

About 70% of those receiving federal aid were already working full time.

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