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Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

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Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#101
post #79
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From having read about the details: someone took a list making fun of mainly European (‘white’ in American) names and posted an image saying mocking people leads to genocide. Yes this is easily separable from making productivity tools.

Although my immediate reaction to the Pyramid of Hate [1] was a similar jump to, “is this saying jokes will lead to genocide?!”, ultimately I don’t think that was the intent. People seemed to have interpreted it in different ways, specifically “You’re telling me I support genocide if I think someone’s name is funny?” I think the people who brought the pyramid into the equation were pointing out how individual behavio…

My perspective on this is you don't lob any sort of infographic about genocide at somebody without meaning to tarnish them. That's escalating the seriousness of a conversation drastically. Making fun of people named Dickinson is not remotely cool, but bringing genocide into the resulting conversation seems way over the line.

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, really? I am not from the US, so I am a bit ignorant about the laws there. In France it is illegal to discriminate against an employee because of his political views. It is not allowed to ask.

What if they have extreme political views? Are you allowed to wear KKK robes to work?

Having some political views and expressing them at the workplace are different things - that's the whole point of this thread.

If your views are that extreme maybe it isn't a workplace that should be taking action? Just a thought

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#103
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a PoC, I’ve also fielded those comments from white co-workers and it honestly feels like a contemporary version of being blind to race.

Can you expand on what do you mean as being blind to race? Do you want them to see your race, treat different races differently? Aren't we supposed to be a color-blind society? Maybe I am just not understanding what you mean.

"Blind to race" claims often go along with smugly ignoring systemic racism in society and acting like it's a solved problem because a black man was elected President.

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#104

I'm just trying to wrap my head around how skewed a poll taken by "a diversity consultancy" would conclude that: "... two-thirds of adults in America want to be able to discuss racial-justice issues at work."

Honestly I haven’t really had any bad experiences discussing these issues in person, but when I read the dumpster fire known as Twitter it makes me not want to get involved

You’ll never have any issues as long as you stay between the lines, that’s the point.

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#105
post #60
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Advocating for what things exactly? It might be a strawman, but I’m going to guess and it would be something like an end to perceived workplace raceism/sexism/*isms. If you let in political advocacy movements from the left do you really want political movements from the right? Or is it just ok if the left is advocating for it? I kinda think the left is trying to have their equity cake and eat it too… To some people (…

Isn’t ending workplace sexism/racism a net benefit to the workplace? How are divisive, hate driven policies related?

GP didn't say "end workplace sexism/racism", they said "end perceived workplace sexism/racism". The former could (arguably) have a definition of when we have arrived at this condition. The latter can never end, because someone can always perceive that it still exists (even if, objectively and hypothetically, it does not exist).

Also, labeling the other side "divisive, hate driven" is not helpful. It's at least divisive itself, and it definitely does not invite understanding of the other side.

But ultimately GP's point was that if you argue your side should be represented, you should consider whether you are okay with the other side also being represented. If not, maybe politics ought to stay out. (Or maybe the views should be moderated or rules of engagement enforced)

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#107
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was about to say, this is the most chilling HN sentence I’ve ever read. The totality of our existence from 8-5 is not owed to someone who profits from our labor and skills because they got lucky with some seed money or an inheritance a decade ago. That’s just the divine right of kings with extra steps.

Your labor and skills are not owed because they got lucky, they are owed because that is what you are exchanging with the owner for money. They may tolerate (and even enjoy) your personal quirks and causes, but they are paying you to get things done that they don't have the time or skill to do themselves. [Edit: Accidentally left ou a letter]

> Your labor and skills are not owed because they got lucky, they are owed because that is what you are exchanging with the owner for money.

But if everybody is woke (and that is the case given that we are talking about tech and California) then the company has no choice but to accept wokeness because the money becomes a non factor if it can't be offered to somebody who is not woke . The supply of non woke workers just isn't there.

Employees will keep wokeing about until they are replaced with non woke workers at the same price point or slight premium due to the efficiency gained by not having political discussions on the job

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#108

Don't talk politics. Don't talk about how much you make. Just do as you are told!

You should openly discuss how much you make in order that you can negotiate with more leverage. But you’re right about politics.

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's surely a firable offense, but part of me is so tempted to give a dark-skin-tone thumbs up in Slack as a white guy.

I've seen it happen - I'm just curious why? Don't think it's fireable or anything, just... weird.

When I'm bored at work I imagine ways to sew discord with tasteless emoji. It's not a sincere temptation.

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, really? I am not from the US, so I am a bit ignorant about the laws there. In France it is illegal to discriminate against an employee because of his political views. It is not allowed to ask.

What if they have extreme political views? Are you allowed to wear KKK robes to work?

Why jump to the extreme? There are plenty of people who seemingly behave “normally”, but are internally sympathetic to some abhorrent views. Does that mean they can’t write JavaScript as well as the next person? If I’m privy to their beliefs that I find disagreeable, does that mean I should “out” them, even if their internalized beliefs have no discernible effect on the workplace?

I’m trying to find my place in the conversation as well. More questions bubble up the more I think. Do I really care that my neighbor is racist if I never interact with them?

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