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Let’s Talk About Hot Tub Streams

blog.twitch.tv

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Re: Let’s Talk About Hot Tub Streams

#101

Post by [deleted] »

Jonanin wrote: post #8
_6pvr wrote: post #2

Twitch continues to pretend hot tub streams aren't intentionally sexually suggestive. What a joke. HN doesn't really do memes, but I made this because it seems relevant: https://imgflip.com/i/5ah3b7

I didn't know there were so many outraged prudes on twitch. Why should twitch have a sexually suggestive content rule in the first place? This rule actually seems reasonable: > Nudity or sexually explicit content (which we define as pornography, sex acts, and sexual services) are not allowed on Twitch. I don't see what the huge issue with showing off your own sexiness is. Sheesh!

[deleted]

Re: Let’s Talk About Hot Tub Streams

#102

Post by ZephyrBlu »

Manuel_D wrote: post #46

I think there's a significant amount of nuance in this situation. On the one hand, I don't object to people steaming and monetizing suggestive (or even explicit) content. These content creators should be able to produce and monetize this content without stigma. On the other hand, I do think the juxtaposition of this content with the rest of Twitch content is problematic. I think putting this content in the same categ…

> "Men garner popularity by exhibiting their skills, women garner popularity by exhibiting their bodies."

In what way does this foster non-productive attitudes in boys and young men?

Re: Let’s Talk About Hot Tub Streams

#103

Post by bluefirebrand »

gabereiser wrote: post #38

Hasn’t the business model been either top-notch gaming or this, the soft core porn niche? I mean, most women streaming on twitch are using their looks and body for viewership. It’s the oldest play in the book. It’s all over YouTube as well (show a girl in a thong, get a million views). Twitch should just create a NSFW/Verified 18+ section and be done with it. I think the real issue is with advertisers. They don’t wan…

> I mean, most women streaming on twitch are using their looks and body for viewership. It’s the oldest play in the book

This is the real sticking point. If they came down hard against titty streamers they would be destroying a large portion of their own viewer base.

Not to mention how bad it would look from a "Twitch is being sexist" viewpoint. Top male streamers would continue to do extremely well, male streamers would be unaffected almost entirely ( I bet some stream shirtless or whatever sometimes and might get in trouble from that )

But lets be real, such a crackdown would basically only effect women.

Re: Let’s Talk About Hot Tub Streams

#104

Post by DaedPsyker »

qsort wrote: post #24
autocorr wrote: post #10

> Community and advertiser feedback made clear that we need to offer more ways to control the content that’s recommended as well as where ads appear. So, we’re introducing a new category: Pools, Hot Tubs, and Beaches. If you have chosen swimwear that is allowed under the “Swim and Beaches” contextual exception to our standard Nudity and Attire policy, you should stream into the Pools, Hot Tubs and Beaches category. P…

Because many people like softcore pornography but they are too much of a prude to admit they do, in fact, enjoy watching softcore pornography. Also, advertisers wouldn't like it.

I doubt the type of people that watch this stuff are really just prudes that can't handle porn.

Re: Let’s Talk About Hot Tub Streams

#105

Post by Manuel_D »

ZephyrBlu wrote: post #102
Manuel_D wrote: post #46

I think there's a significant amount of nuance in this situation. On the one hand, I don't object to people steaming and monetizing suggestive (or even explicit) content. These content creators should be able to produce and monetize this content without stigma. On the other hand, I do think the juxtaposition of this content with the rest of Twitch content is problematic. I think putting this content in the same categ…

> "Men garner popularity by exhibiting their skills, women garner popularity by exhibiting their bodies." In what way does this foster non-productive attitudes in boys and young men?

I suspect it reinforces the stereotype that women who enter "nerdy" spaces like gaming are more interested in attracting the attention of men, than actually engaging with gaming. It plays into the trope of a "gamer girl that sucks at games, but succeeds because she's hot". This leads to women's abilities being doubted, and their intentions often mistaken.

To be clear, there's nothing wrong with doing suggestive cosplay or things like that. I also doubt that the average person is going to watch Amouranth, and then immediately assume that all the women interested in gaming are curating the same kind of appeal - this kind of influence is more subtle than that. But I do believe that the juxtaposition of male streamers' content, and many of the most popular women's content likely fosters these stereotypes.

Re: Let’s Talk About Hot Tub Streams

#106

Post by qsort »

DaedPsyker wrote: post #104
qsort wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because many people like softcore pornography but they are too much of a prude to admit they do, in fact, enjoy watching softcore pornography. Also, advertisers wouldn't like it.

I doubt the type of people that watch this stuff are really just prudes that can't handle porn.

It's a game of numbers, and toeing the line between porn and non-porn is the local optimum.

It's like a TV channel. They'd never show actual porn but they try to get as close as possible while retaining plausible deniability.

Re: Let’s Talk About Hot Tub Streams

#107

Post by dna_polymerase »

belval wrote: post #53
wvenable wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems like there's an opportunity to just split the site, create a new brand for adult content, and send that content over to that brand.

There is not enough money in it for Amazon to start ramping up in pornographic material. The chances of brand degradation, possible boycotts due to women looking young/revenge porn is much much too high to be worth it.

They are talking about moving the existing lewd stuff out onto a new platform, not starting a PornHub alternative. There is obviously enough in it for Amazon, otherwise they would just ban the pools outright.

Re: Let’s Talk About Hot Tub Streams

#108

Post by robbrown451 »

_6pvr wrote: post #78
robbrown451 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you ask that before? What is your point? Surely you recognize that these things lie on a spectrum. Is charging admission for beach volleyball a sexual service? No matter your level of prudishness, you will be able to find something that is right in the gray area.

> Is charging admission for beach volleyball a sexual service? This question actually perfectly articulates the difference. When you pay $5 to watch a beach volleyball tournament, you're paying for volleyball, and may as a side effect experience content that _some_ may find sexual. By Twitch's ToS, this should totally be allowed. As for my example, is there a nonsexual reason to pay a woman 5 dollars to bend over in…

So you've come up with an example that is clearly on one side of the line. Ok, but not sure what that proves. I don't think anyone has argued that there aren't any clear cut cases.

What you are missing is that whatever rule you make, people are going to try to push the limits, because it gets them viewers. If twitch says that someone bending over in a bikini has no non-sexual purpose and therefore is against the rules, the creators could change the stream very slightly.... just enough so they can claim to be about exercise, yoga, modeling fashion, or dance. They'd still have the same audience, with the exact same reason for watching, but now it sneaks by the rule.

Pole dancing is an art and takes athletic skill, sure, but most people (at least in the US) consider it is purely viewed for sexual gratification. But creators could claim its "main" purpose is to enjoy the dancing for its artistic and athletic merit.

Sports Illustrated has a swim suit issue, and it's not about swimming so how is that sports? It's just an excuse.

The majority of art channels on twitch are people drawing sexy (often anime-style) girls and women. You can learn to draw from them, but the sexier they make them, the more viewers they get.

So... I really don't get what you are trying to say. You seem to not understand that there is gray area.

Re: Let’s Talk About Hot Tub Streams

#109

Post by nemothekid »

_6pvr wrote: post #71
nemothekid wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Twitch continues to pretend hot tub streams aren't intentionally sexually suggestive. What a joke. What do you want Twitch to do? Ban women from wearing anything than a Burqa? Or ban Twitch streamers from going to the beach?

What a truly excellent strawman. Do you see no middle ground between obviously sexual content and a Burqa? Is there no middle ground between writing someone's name on your breasts for $5 and going to the beach to swim?

>Is there no middle ground

What is that middle ground? Do you codify and say women can't write things on their chest? What about in a video game? Should streaming Cyberpunk 2077 be banned - it clearly has sexual content? I'm not making a straw man - I'm trying to point out your essentially saying "they should ban content I don't like", which means Twitch will apply the rules in anyway you fit - another complaint you have brought up.

Again, are you saying streamers shouldn't be allowed to go to the beach? Or are you saying they shouldn't be allowed to wear bikinis? And if another streamer watches a YouTube video that has a woman at the beach should they be banned?

Re: Let’s Talk About Hot Tub Streams

#110

Post by crazypyro »

DaedPsyker wrote: post #104
qsort wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because many people like softcore pornography but they are too much of a prude to admit they do, in fact, enjoy watching softcore pornography. Also, advertisers wouldn't like it.

I doubt the type of people that watch this stuff are really just prudes that can't handle porn.

I wouldn't doubt that a large percentage of the viewers are underaged users who actually do not have any experience with adult material.

Twitch is a gaming site. Kids watch youtube videos of people playing games, they get funneled to check out the minecraft/fortnite/etc. category on twitch then they get curious and check out the large streamers on the site. What do you know? There's a streamer who is sitting in a hot tub with 20k viewers (enough to put her in the top streams). It doesn't matter that twitch has a "mature audience warning".

Anyone who has used the site for any amount of time knows Twitch is providing a clear on-ramp to underaged kids accessing nearly-softcore porn.

They can't have their cake (young, gaming advertisers) and eat it too (allow nearly naked young women in kiddie pools) on the same site... Only reason they are even being forced to make a change is because of advertisers. I can only imagine if parents actually knew the extent of the hot tub streams, twitch wouldn't be allowed in a lot of households, but since its a "gaming" site first, its under the radar.

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