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Let’s Talk About Hot Tub Streams

blog.twitch.tv

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Re: Let’s Talk About Hot Tub Streams

#41

Post by notJim »

sillysaurusx wrote: post #16

The context here is that one of the most prolific twitch streamers recently had her advertising cut with no warning. (They still run ads on her stream, but she doesn’t get any of the proceeds, if I understand it.) Lots of these streamers have an Onlyfans link in their Twitter bio, though, and they make it pretty obvious that you should join “to see the good stuff.” https://twitter.com/amouranth/status/139519251195885…

I'm not sure why it's relevant that they have OnlyFans links, unless Amazon's position is that no one who has an OnlyFans or who makes adult content on other platforms is allowed on Twitch.

> “she’s doing the equivalent of holding a finger in front of your face and saying ‘not touching you! Not touching you!’ for a no-touching policy.”

In other words, she's in compliance with the policy?

Re: Let’s Talk About Hot Tub Streams

#42

Post by wvenable »

Traster wrote: post #33
autocorr wrote: post #10

> Community and advertiser feedback made clear that we need to offer more ways to control the content that’s recommended as well as where ads appear. So, we’re introducing a new category: Pools, Hot Tubs, and Beaches. If you have chosen swimwear that is allowed under the “Swim and Beaches” contextual exception to our standard Nudity and Attire policy, you should stream into the Pools, Hot Tubs and Beaches category. P…

They don't want to be a porn site. The problem they have is that the porn content drives away advertisers and non-porn related contant. So they have to steer away from porn, but wherever they draw the line there are going to be people testing the line, and there's an audience for it. So the compromise they've clearly come up with is they don't allow porn, but if you happen to be sexy wearing practically nothing, that…

Seems like there's an opportunity to just split the site, create a new brand for adult content, and send that content over to that brand.

Re: Let’s Talk About Hot Tub Streams

#43

Post by nickysielicki »

These streams are closer to pornography than most people realize. There's a reason that these streams get so much attention: 14 year old young men love watching video games, so they go to sites where they can watch video games. If you start serving softcore pornography on the same website, well gee wiz, who could have guessed that it would be pretty lucrative?

You don't have to be a prude to have a problem with this. It's not a matter of stigmatizing sex work or being anti-women, it's about profiting by serving porn-lite on the same site where children are likely to be.

I don't personally care, but I'm floored that a company like Twitch/Amazon, with hundreds of people in HR and PR, would not play it safe and just ban it.

Re: Let’s Talk About Hot Tub Streams

#45

Post by notJim »

deanc wrote: post #17
Jonanin wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't know there were so many outraged prudes on twitch. Why should twitch have a sexually suggestive content rule in the first place? This rule actually seems reasonable: > Nudity or sexually explicit content (which we define as pornography, sex acts, and sexual services) are not allowed on Twitch. I don't see what the huge issue with showing off your own sexiness is. Sheesh!

Because there are other places for that. Many people browse twitch at work (let’s not debate that) and don’t want to see that kind of content. Or on machines visible at home around other family members. These women have every right to do as they please, and most likely will continue to push the boundaries of twitch’s tolerance. I suspect we will have car washing streams or sauna streams next to get around the rule. B…

Wouldn't a simple solution be to allow people to disable or hide NSFW streams? Reddit and Twitter both have this, IIRC.

Re: Let’s Talk About Hot Tub Streams

#46

Post by Manuel_D »

I think there's a significant amount of nuance in this situation. On the one hand, I don't object to people steaming and monetizing suggestive (or even explicit) content. These content creators should be able to produce and monetize this content without stigma.

On the other hand, I do think the juxtaposition of this content with the rest of Twitch content is problematic. I think putting this content in the same category as gaming content unintentionally conveys the message, "Men garner popularity by exhibiting their skills, women garner popularity by exhibiting their bodies." I suspect this juxtaposition of the most popular male streamers' content with that of some of the most popular women's content on the platform and exposing this young people ends up fostering non-productive attitudes among boys and young men. Other women on the platform have complained about their audiences pressuring them into producing similar content. I've also heard from women and girls that it's off-putting to see the prevalence of women in bikinis, not playing any games, on a platform that ostensibly about gaming. I think Twitch is in the right to see this as a problem.

But what's the solution here? On the one hand, I think it's giving these streamers the short end of the stick to have ambiguous policies and issue unexpected demonetizations or bans. Maybe a more effective approach would be to have stronger separation between "just chatting" content and gaming content, to retain this content but mitigate the problem of that juxtaposition. I suspect this is what the "Pools, Hot Tubs, and Beaches" category will probably be, but maybe it'd be better to spin this off into sister platform that isn't explicitly tied into gaming.

Re: Let’s Talk About Hot Tub Streams

#48

Post by poyu »

jedberg wrote: post #36

I never used Twitch before the pandemic -- watching people play games was never really my thing. But then I discovered the entire second use of Twitch, streaming music. Since March 2020, it's been possible to find someone streaming music at pretty much any time of day. One day I was watching around 2am Pacific time, and the stream ended. I was looking for another one when I saw someone in the music category with 13,0…

> I was fascinated by the fact that she had so many people basically just watching her in a hot tub and giving her money. She wasn't doing anything compelling.

Wait until you learn about VTubers.

Re: Let’s Talk About Hot Tub Streams

#49

Post by overtonwhy »

didibus wrote: post #11

> Sexually suggestive content–and where to draw the line–is an area that is particularly complex to assess, as sexual suggestiveness is a spectrum that involves some degree of personal interpretation of where the line falls This is just in general why I have an issue with prudeness in our society. I have no idea where prudeness comes from, is it innate to some people? Is it a taught trait? But it seems to cause so mu…

Because as you get older over time you can observe how this kind of "content" messes up young peoples' expectations about the average human body, instills a shallow and superficial mindset about relationships, and generally does absolutely nothing of value for anyone except the parasite who is manipulating ignorant or desperate people using sexuality for profit.

Re: Let’s Talk About Hot Tub Streams

#50

Post by robbrown451 »

_6pvr wrote: post #21
robbrown451 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They don't say that. Did you actually read what they wrote? It is very nuanced. Their rule is that it can't be "overtly or explicitly sexually suggestive", and they acknowledge that it lies on a spectrum. They have to draw the line somewhere. To some people, for instance the Amish or fundamentalism Muslims, the line is very different from that of typical Westerners.

> There has been confusion around whether streams from hot tubs are permissible under our current policies, and we understand why our rules as written have contributed to that confusion. Under our current Nudity & Attire and Sexually Suggestive Content policies, streamers may appear in swimwear in contextually appropriate situations (at the beach, in a hot tub, for example), and we allow creative expression like body…

Did you ask that before? What is your point?

Surely you recognize that these things lie on a spectrum. Is charging admission for beach volleyball a sexual service? No matter your level of prudishness, you will be able to find something that is right in the gray area.

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