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Internet Explorer 11 (IE11) to be retired on June 15, 2022

blogs.windows.com

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Re: Internet Explorer 11 (IE11) to be retired on June 15, 2022

#221

Post by toastal »

blacksmith_tb wrote: post #202
derefr wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given that email is MIME (i.e. you can add multiple “bodies” to a message, with different content-types, and the email client will select the best one it can render), you’d think we could just come up with a new content-type for email meaning “HTML, but for real”, and add that to email in addition to the current “HTML, but sucky” semantics we get from text/html-typed bodies. For a while, people would be sending both…

CSS grid email designs would be great, but we'd also get an avalanche of nightmare canvas-tag spam...

Maybe more people will then demand plaintext as we come full circle

Re: Internet Explorer 11 (IE11) to be retired on June 15, 2022

#223

Post by underscore_ku »

skrebbel wrote: post #74

I smell a lot of nostalgia in this thread, and rightfully so! IE has been a terrible browser, but it was our terrible browser. But fear not! Outlook still uses the HTML parsing engine from MS Word (!) to display your HTML emails, and it's not going anywhere.

not my browser! i use Linux - Chromium or Firefox

Re: Internet Explorer 11 (IE11) to be retired on June 15, 2022

#224

Post by arvindamirtaa »

formercoder wrote: post #203
easton wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When Outlook becomes a PWA (currently in test, I think it's probably two-three years from stable), it'll be rendering mail with all the functionality of Blink. Which depending on your point of view, means a sigh of relief or time to buy more RAM. https://www.windowscentral.com/project-monarch-outlook-web-u...

Wow this is awful. I just moved to an outlook company after years on google. It’s so nice having my mail client be native.

FYI, Gmail works on Outlook. But the ability to use extensions may be limited on some platforms.

Re: Internet Explorer 11 (IE11) to be retired on June 15, 2022

#225

Post by [deleted] »

easton wrote: post #80
skrebbel wrote: post #74

I smell a lot of nostalgia in this thread, and rightfully so! IE has been a terrible browser, but it was our terrible browser. But fear not! Outlook still uses the HTML parsing engine from MS Word (!) to display your HTML emails, and it's not going anywhere.

When Outlook becomes a PWA (currently in test, I think it's probably two-three years from stable), it'll be rendering mail with all the functionality of Blink. Which depending on your point of view, means a sigh of relief or time to buy more RAM. https://www.windowscentral.com/project-monarch-outlook-web-u...

[deleted]

Re: Internet Explorer 11 (IE11) to be retired on June 15, 2022

#226

Post by whakim »

fomine3 wrote: post #210
whakim wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you share some CSS vulnerabilities that would work in email but not in a browser? I can certainly think of CSS vulnerabilities that would not work in email because email can't execute javascript, but can't come up with the reverse off the top of my head. Genuinely curious here.

* Any way that reference external resource like css url() can be used as beacon. It should be blockable by client like image, but thinking how it affect is difficult if all tags are allowed. * iframe content inside message is editable after message sent. * Java Applet/ActiveX is almost dead, but still available. Should it be allowed on email? (for web mail on IE11/Trident) * Sanitizing JavaScript from HTML by blackli…

> * Any way that reference external resource like css url() can be used as beacon. It should be blockable by client like image, but thinking how it affect is difficult if all tags are allowed.

You can already use url() to load background images - seems like this is a solved vector.

> * iframe content inside message is editable after message sent.

Does this really increase the attack surface area, since you can't execute javascript from the iframe?

* Java Applet/ActiveX is almost dead, but still available. Should it be allowed on email? (for web mail on IE11/Trident)

No, because that's not in the HTML/CSS spec and modern browsers don't support it.

* Sanitizing JavaScript from HTML by blacklisting isn't simple operation. Possibly attack vector. (for web mail)

Seems like a solved problem considering there's currently no way to execute arbitrary javascript in webmail.

Re: Internet Explorer 11 (IE11) to be retired on June 15, 2022

#227

Post by SilverRed »

nexuist wrote: post #219
zozbot234 wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But then why have HTML email at all? You could just write in markdown.

Why have HTML email in the first place? No other messaging client lets you send entire HTML documents as messages. Just send me some words and a link to click on in a proper browser. The fact that HTML email is so bloated and a nightmare to eyeballs eveywhere is (IMO) a huge reason why conversations (even professional ones) shifted over to Slack, SMS, WhatsApp, FB Messenger, etc. I want a place to talk to people, not…

You're comment made me think about why we actually use slack/IM when email is just as capable and I think the answer is that I can have notifications turned on for IM and I can't do that for email. Which means I respond much slower to email.

IM is one of the last places on the internet not filled with automated crap, advertisers and spam. And to be fair, some of that automated crap I actually want and browse through at a later time but IM explicitly separates real time messages and newsletters.

Re: Internet Explorer 11 (IE11) to be retired on June 15, 2022

#228

Post by fomine3 »

whakim wrote: post #226
fomine3 wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

* Any way that reference external resource like css url() can be used as beacon. It should be blockable by client like image, but thinking how it affect is difficult if all tags are allowed. * iframe content inside message is editable after message sent. * Java Applet/ActiveX is almost dead, but still available. Should it be allowed on email? (for web mail on IE11/Trident) * Sanitizing JavaScript from HTML by blackli…

> * Any way that reference external resource like css url() can be used as beacon. It should be blockable by client like image, but thinking how it affect is difficult if all tags are allowed. You can already use url() to load background images - seems like this is a solved vector. > * iframe content inside message is editable after message sent. Does this really increase the attack surface area, since you can't exec…

> You can already use url() to load background images - seems like this is a solved vector.

Background image with url() is very easy to be whitelisted because it's very similar to tag.

> Does this really increase the attack surface area, since you can't execute javascript from the iframe?

Sorry, this concern isn't about security for browsers, but for text editable email without indication. Maybe you can argue that it's not a problem because external image is already replaceable, but IMO it's more problematic.

> No, because that's not in the HTML/CSS spec and modern browsers don't support it.

Blacklist approach means that any tags just work unless explicitly specified on blacklist. "Not in spec" won't help.

> Seems like a solved problem considering there's currently no way to execute arbitrary javascript in webmail.

That's thanks to whitelist approach.

Re: Internet Explorer 11 (IE11) to be retired on June 15, 2022

#229

Post by nikanj »

cpeterso wrote: post #113
nikanj wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have any links to documentation for automating FF?

Some options for automating website tests in Firefox: WebDriver: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/WebDriver Marionette: https://firefox-source-docs.mozilla.org/testing/marionette/I... Puppeteer: https://www.infoq.com/news/2020/04/puppeteer-3-firefox-suppo... I haven't used these tools, so I don't know which is "best" or why so many different tools are needed. :)

I don’t want to run tests, I want to drive the browser for the customer. I guess it’s time to learn chrome extensions

Re: Internet Explorer 11 (IE11) to be retired on June 15, 2022

#230

Post by fn1 »

chihuahua wrote: post #214
ido wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wasn't that the email client?

I think the email client was Thunderbird https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mozilla_Thunderbird

The email client is still Thunderbird, it's in active development.
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