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Commander X16

commanderx16.com

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Re: Commander X16

#91

Post by chalcolithic »

codeflo wrote: post #34
chalcolithic wrote: post #18

While I love, love, love retrocomputing I don't understand why 99% of it is "retro-next" computing - instead of designing computer from some era people like to design much beefier next-gen machines. 2MB of RAM? 640x480? Why not use Amiga instead? Designing a machine that would beat c64 is insanely appealing to me. Designing a machine that would beat c64 because it came out a decade later and had larger ram chips and…

That sounds interesting, what are the exact rules of this game? Are you only allowed to use components that actually existed at the time, or ones that might have existed? I.e., do you have to use a 6502, or can you design a better CPU, using modern knowledge, but considering old fabrication techniques?

Either way is fine, I think.

Re: Commander X16

#92

Post by chalcolithic »

talideon wrote: post #31
chalcolithic wrote: post #18

While I love, love, love retrocomputing I don't understand why 99% of it is "retro-next" computing - instead of designing computer from some era people like to design much beefier next-gen machines. 2MB of RAM? 640x480? Why not use Amiga instead? Designing a machine that would beat c64 is insanely appealing to me. Designing a machine that would beat c64 because it came out a decade later and had larger ram chips and…

Most of isn't "retro-next" computing. There are a _very_ small number of projects of that kind, most notably the X16, the Mega65, and the Spectrum Next. The Maximites might fall into that, as might the MiST and MiSTer boards, but that's debatable. What _most_ people do are extensions to existing hardware (like the Amiga Vampire), replacements for failing chips (which might also include extra features because there's…

Ok, it means that projects that manage to get some publicity are "retro-next".

Re: Commander X16

#93

Post by bartread »

sparcpile wrote: post #50
bartread wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have pissed and moaned at length about the ZX Spectrum Next so I'm not about to recapitulate all of that here. OTOH David Murray (The 8-bit Guy on YouTue), who is leading the Commander X16 project, does have a strong history of executing well and shipping. I haven't been that interested in other "new retro" computers, apart from the ZX Spectrum Next (which at least retains 100% compatibility, and for which I have s…

His previous work has been software games, which make up a fair share of his income along with YouTube ads. He quit his real job to be a YouTube personality and sell software on the side. The design goal of the X16 was to try to make a 8bit computer out of modern stock for close to $100. The concept was to have an easily fixable computer with no bespoke parts. That goal got blown out of the water due to the realities…

Sure, but it's not like it's trivial to build games of the quality he has: if you have any doubts about that just look at the quantity of really terrible games available for 8-bit platforms.

Nobody said that what he's trying to do with the X16 is easy: however, I do trust him to deliver.

(My own personal wishlist here would be something like an Amiga 1200 but with two Paulas, controllable panning, and two SID chips, along with sprite rotation and scaling hardware. Ain't gonna happen, of course.)

Re: Commander X16

#94

Post by cmrdporcupine »

scj wrote: post #75
hvs wrote: post #2

I'm a big retrocomputing enthusiast (in the C64 and Apple // realms) and the people doing this project are well-known in the community, but I just have trouble believing this will be successful. I don't want a computer that's kinda like a C64. I have a C64, and anyone who really likes that platform can either buy one on ebay or emulate it. A new platform that is a shadow of a platform from 40 years ago is such a nich…

I think a reasonably priced RISC-V psuedo-retrocomputer that boots directly into Lisp / Scheme on simple to use hardware would be a great computer to learn programming on. Should be just as understandable to a newbie as a 6502 / Basic combo, but with a much better path to current computing environments.

I was working on exactly this (though not to Lisp, per se) before I got distracted and COVID came. I was calling it "Retro-V". In Verilog, I had a RISC-V core hooked up to my own home-built video logic, and was working on the SD card controller before I shelved it.

In the meantime various RISC-V SoCs have come to market which could probably do the job well.

Re: Commander X16

#95

Post by erosenbe0 »

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #49

All these machines end up involving one or more FPGAs -- to varying degrees -- simply because of the requirements and logistics. There's varying types of purism involved ("FPGA only where we would have used a custom chip" or "FPGA but not for the CPU" etc) but once you start down that path the whole thing starts to seem silly as with many of these machines the entire functionality could be done on a single relatively…

Pretty cool. I am not too knowledgeable about fpgas but the 144 qfp or bga parts have so many pins. If you have 32 clocks per clock of emulation that is plenty leeway to have an awesome debug header and monitor that was never possible with the real thing.

Re: Commander X16

#96

Post by selfhoster11 »

zokier wrote: post #71
selfhoster11 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's weird. I thought that VideoCore boots fairly fast.

Quick googling found this: http://himeshp.blogspot.com/2018/08/fast-boot-with-raspberry... Apparently rpi spends about as long on vc boot as it does for kernel+userland combined... Not great imho

The article says it's about 1.5-2 seconds. For a firmware that's meant to just boot it's not great, but it's not as bad as I expected.

Re: Commander X16

#97

Post by asddubs »

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #72
rasz wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

8-bit guy is known for destroying rare prototypes with his lack of engineering knowledge https://twitter.com/textfiles/status/1309664882283950081 https://www.reddit.com/r/retrobattlestations/comments/izuswa...

I thought this was going to be about that time he hooked two power supplies up to the same machine [0]. That time was worse in my opinion because anyone who knows anything about how a switching power supply works could tell you that was a bad idea, but I still have a hard time getting worked up about it. The torx bits thing doesn't even really register. It may be rare and special to us, but at the end of the day it i…

you didn't post a link for your footnote! What happened? I can see how this would interfere with the voltage correction (if you don't decouple them e.g. using somewhat low value resistors) but if they're not put in series, I can't actually immediately see how this would cause damage

Re: Commander X16

#98

Post by billpg »

wvenable wrote: post #89
billpg wrote: post #76

I don't get it. I get building a C64 (or other retro systems) but with HDMI ports and components that can be sourced without dumpster diving. I don't want to replace a bunch of capacitors to play 80s games either. But why would I spend good money on a Commander X16 when I could buy a (say) Raspberry Pi. If I'm going to buy a modern system, then why not buy a modern system?

But it's not a modern system. At it's core is an 8Bit CPU.

Its architecture was literally designed within the past few years.

Re: Commander X16

#99

Post by borninator »

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #42
crb wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

David "The 8-Bit Guy" Murray, the initiator of the Commander X16, has a blog post about why he wasn't satisfied with the C256 Foenix: http://www.the8bitguy.com/3543/my-dream-computer-part-2/ > Stefany and I disagree over some of the design at the moment. For example she has an integrated floppy drive, MIDI ports, SID chips, and a whole host of other things that I don’t feel are necessary and will inflate the cost of…

His machine will probably end up costing pretty much as much and be less interesting. Stefany is a hyper-competent hardware engineer and her machine is excellent. It is an interesting machine -- and it exists. But I personally cancelled my order after a personality conflict with her. I personally am excited about the Mega65.

I'm curious; why cancel a product you want made by someone who you describe as competent due to a personality conflict? Some moral boundary or principle matter? I wouldn't think a clash of personalities should be a factor in such a transaction.

Re: Commander X16

#100

Post by wvenable »

billpg wrote: post #98
wvenable wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But it's not a modern system. At it's core is an 8Bit CPU.

Its architecture was literally designed within the past few years.

This is true, but it's in the same style as a C64 architecture.

These guys already own C64's. You can convert the signal to HDMI if you want a C64 with HDMI. You can get C64 Maxi if you want the physical experience with emulation. All possibilities are out there.

The purpose of this is to be something new, solving some of the problems of the C64, while retaining the same architectural style.

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