Commander X16
commanderx16.com
Commander X16
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Re: Commander X16
#2I'm a big retrocomputing enthusiast (in the C64 and Apple // realms) and the people doing this project are well-known in the community, but I just have trouble believing this will be successful. I don't want a computer that's kinda like a C64. I have a C64, and anyone who really likes that platform can either buy one on ebay or emulate it. A new platform that is a shadow of a platform from 40 years ago is such a niche market that I have trouble seeing how it'll ever be popular enough to get the price to a reasonable level. Maybe I'm wrong and there's a huge untapped market for retro-like computers. Pico-8 shows that there is some market for retro-like emulators, but asking someone to pay $14 is a lot different than $100 (or more).
Re: Commander X16
#3I'm a big retrocomputing enthusiast (in the C64 and Apple // realms) and the people doing this project are well-known in the community, but I just have trouble believing this will be successful. I don't want a computer that's kinda like a C64. I have a C64, and anyone who really likes that platform can either buy one on ebay or emulate it. A new platform that is a shadow of a platform from 40 years ago is such a nich…
You're probably right, but I'm going to order one as soon as they become generally available (providing the price isn't too expensive). I'm not interested in owning a real C64 because of its complete absence of modern conveniences (VGA, external keyboard, etc).
Re: Commander X16
#4I'm a big retrocomputing enthusiast (in the C64 and Apple // realms) and the people doing this project are well-known in the community, but I just have trouble believing this will be successful. I don't want a computer that's kinda like a C64. I have a C64, and anyone who really likes that platform can either buy one on ebay or emulate it. A new platform that is a shadow of a platform from 40 years ago is such a nich…
Defining success is tricky for these. For some of them I think the people creating them are perfectly happy with just getting something for themselves and a handful of enthusiasts.
I agree with you, though. If I absolutely wanted physical hardware, I'd get a real one, or an FPGA reimplementation on a general board like MiSTER [1] that'd also let me run other cores, or something like the Ultimate 64 [2] (fit's in a real C64 case). I'd be more inclined to buy one of these "8-bit alternate reality continuity" thing, if something like the (FPGA based) Mega 65 [3] becomes reality.
Re: Commander X16
#5I'm a big retrocomputing enthusiast (in the C64 and Apple // realms) and the people doing this project are well-known in the community, but I just have trouble believing this will be successful. I don't want a computer that's kinda like a C64. I have a C64, and anyone who really likes that platform can either buy one on ebay or emulate it. A new platform that is a shadow of a platform from 40 years ago is such a nich…
I think part of the excitement over real hardware is the potential that clever programmers can find ways to get more out of the hardware than it was designed for as in the real 8-bit era. While I think things like Pico-8 are interesting, there really isn't the possibility for things like new graphics modes that weren't programmed in by its creator the way real hardware can surprise you.
Re: Commander X16
#6I'm a big retrocomputing enthusiast (in the C64 and Apple // realms) and the people doing this project are well-known in the community, but I just have trouble believing this will be successful. I don't want a computer that's kinda like a C64. I have a C64, and anyone who really likes that platform can either buy one on ebay or emulate it. A new platform that is a shadow of a platform from 40 years ago is such a nich…
I think it will be successful, for a reasonable definition of success (e.g. fulfilling a dream of designing a computer and turning a small profit in the process). There is some precedent for this: retro-like computer games, for both modern computers and the original hardware; peripherals that support vintage computers; vintage computer clones that are based upon emulation or FPGA; hobby computer kits offering similar specifications. While none of those examples are the same, they demonstrate that people are willing to spend money to recreate rather than replicate an earlier era of computer history.
Re: Commander X16
#7I'm a big retrocomputing enthusiast (in the C64 and Apple // realms) and the people doing this project are well-known in the community, but I just have trouble believing this will be successful. I don't want a computer that's kinda like a C64. I have a C64, and anyone who really likes that platform can either buy one on ebay or emulate it. A new platform that is a shadow of a platform from 40 years ago is such a nich…
Defining success is tricky for these. For some of them I think the people creating them are perfectly happy with just getting something for themselves and a handful of enthusiasts. I agree with you, though. If I absolutely wanted physical hardware, I'd get a real one, or an FPGA reimplementation on a general board like MiSTER [1] that'd also let me run other cores, or something like the Ultimate 64 [2] (fit's in a re…
An FPGA implementation is missing the big educational aspect though, namely that this product probably intends for it to be feasible (just like it was with the 8 bit computers back then) to fully understand the hardware, prod it, modify it, and interface to it. Usually up to IC boundary, but the key there is that the ICs are distinct and (hopefully) not too complex.
Even a fully "open" modern platform is usually just way too complex, integrated, and often full of abstraction layers.
With an FPGA, you in theory have that within the FPGA design itself for the most part, but it's still integrated and wrapped away so much that the directly relationship between current and logic, and things like an actual external bus with traces you can probe and hook into, is just not as tangible.
Re: Commander X16
#8Earlier quoted context omitted.
Defining success is tricky for these. For some of them I think the people creating them are perfectly happy with just getting something for themselves and a handful of enthusiasts. I agree with you, though. If I absolutely wanted physical hardware, I'd get a real one, or an FPGA reimplementation on a general board like MiSTER [1] that'd also let me run other cores, or something like the Ultimate 64 [2] (fit's in a re…
An FPGA implementation is missing the big educational aspect though, namely that this product probably intends for it to be feasible (just like it was with the 8 bit computers back then) to fully understand the hardware, prod it, modify it, and interface to it. Usually up to IC boundary, but the key there is that the ICs are distinct and (hopefully) not too complex. Even a fully "open" modern platform is usually just…
To be clear when I wrote about my preferences above it was from a perspective of what I'd like to have and to use myself. I absolutely agree with you that many of these are great for educational purposes, so I absolutely think it's great some people are doing these too. That said, for that purpose I'd have stuck with something a more direct analog to one of the existing 8-bit machines myself. But it's not my projects so he is of course entirely free to make it however he prefers.
Re: Commander X16
#9I'm a big retrocomputing enthusiast (in the C64 and Apple // realms) and the people doing this project are well-known in the community, but I just have trouble believing this will be successful. I don't want a computer that's kinda like a C64. I have a C64, and anyone who really likes that platform can either buy one on ebay or emulate it. A new platform that is a shadow of a platform from 40 years ago is such a nich…
What I see is a system designed specifically to be tinkered with and learned from. You have large, simple components, lots of expansion possibilities, fixed up BASIC, etc.
I learned on computers such as these and it was a GREAT help in understanding how they actually accomplish basic things like talking to devices, handling memory, dealing with problems, communicating with other computers, etc. This brings back that magic while also removing some of the more unsightly warts of the original systems, and also interfaces easily with many conveniences of the modern era. For $100 that's a great toy to learn on.
Re: Commander X16
#10I'm a big retrocomputing enthusiast (in the C64 and Apple // realms) and the people doing this project are well-known in the community, but I just have trouble believing this will be successful. I don't want a computer that's kinda like a C64. I have a C64, and anyone who really likes that platform can either buy one on ebay or emulate it. A new platform that is a shadow of a platform from 40 years ago is such a nich…
> I have a C64, and anyone who really likes that platform can either buy one on ebay or emulate it.
Anything that has actual retro hardware is bound to be niche. I am extremely happy with my C64 Maxi. It’s emulated, has an HDMI output, USB, can be a C64 and a VIC-20 and is a reasonably accurate physical replica of a VIC-20. I already have a dozen actual vintage computers, but the other ones require attention and care that this one doesn’t and that’s a killer feature: it can be used pretty much the same way one would approach a computer in the mid-80s - it’s a computer, not a museum piece. You attach it to a TV, not to another carefully preserved artefact.
The physical mimicry is, what I think, the most important part. You relate to a physical object that feels the same as the original and that allows you to explore what the original was and felt like.
I’d love to see more of this, because it’s easy to manufacture and inexpensive enough to be put in the hands of children who can then have a blast exploring a bit of our past. My 8yo loves it. Now I wish they added C16/Plus 4 emulation, and that they did C128 and C65 ones.