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Hyundai Nexo sets new world record 887.5 km travelled on single tank of hydrogen

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Re: Hyundai Nexo sets new world record 887.5 km travelled on single tank of hydrogen

#151

Post by bryanlarsen »

GuB-42 wrote: post #97
MattRix wrote: post #16

What is the appeal of a hydrogen car vs an eletric car? The range appears to be similar, but being able to charge at home is so much more convenient.

Hydrogen has a great energy density, that's why it is used in rockets. It may have similar range as battery electric cars but it can scale better. It can be refueled in minutes, like gas cars. And the economy is based on using "waste" renewable energy. The problem is that solar panels and wind turbines don't produce energy when we need it the most (see: duck curve). The idea is to store that energy as hydrogen and us…

> Hydrogen has a great energy density, that's why it is used in rockets.

Per kg, but its energy density per litre is very poor. Every modern rocket uses RP1 (kerosene) or Methane (natural gas) for their first stages now.

> It can be refueled in minutes, like gas cars.

If your hydrogen station has 10,000 PSI hydrogen available. A typical station can fill 3 cars per hour quickly. More than that and you have to wait for it to get back up to 10,000 PSI.

> And the economy is based on using "waste" renewable energy. The problem is that solar panels and wind turbines don't produce energy when we need it the most (see: duck curve). The idea is to store that energy as hydrogen and use it in vehicles.

You can also store "waste" renewable energy in EV batteries.

Re: Hyundai Nexo sets new world record 887.5 km travelled on single tank of hydrogen

#152

Post by bkor »

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #118
jeffbee wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are the restrictions? There’s a hydrogen station in Berkeley in University Avenue across the street from a school and with houses on two sides.

I think he meant fire safety of hydrogen requires more consideration than an electric charger.

In NL a hydrogen station needs to follow loads of safety requirements. So not just fire safety, safety in general. This was raised as an issue around hydrogen gas/fuel stations.

Note that due to increase of EVs the safety requirements for garages have been increased (in NL). E.g. more monitoring is needed, automatic link to fire department, plus changes in construction requirements. Construction bit is due to an EV burning for longer. They basically demand thicker concrete walls and so on. This from memory and it's only what I've been reading (interested in safety; I don't work in construction).

Re: Hyundai Nexo sets new world record 887.5 km travelled on single tank of hydrogen

#154

Post by AAA_Rating »

kazoomonger wrote: post #143
AAA_Rating wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hydrogen has the same infrastructure as gasoline. A "recharge" takes as much as 40 seconds. EVs have a negative impact in the quality of life of those who buy them because they cost more and have the problem of recharging time. It's simply an own goal you are doing to your team which in this case is your family because of woke ideals. Lower mantainence costs is also a legend unless we are talking about Toyotas and Be…

I really just fucking love plugging in at home to charge (and so does my family, and no I'm not just saying that). I don't want "infrastructure". I would take even slower charging if it meant I got to charge at home. As-is, I'm very satisfied, and excited to see where EV tech goes. I'm sure in a few years the charging speed and range I've got now will be peanuts to what's out there. My maintenance costs have been tir…

> I really just fucking love plugging in at home to charge (and so does my family, and no I'm not just saying that)

Why is that? When you purchase a car you buy the 24/7/365 availibility of said car.

An EV is not availible to use 24/7/365. Regardless of the human biorythms you should get a discount because an EV is less of a car compared to an actual car which is always ready to go.

With EVs you are not getting a discount, but you'd have to pay a premium. This is a subpar outcome for the consumer in my book.

Re: Hyundai Nexo sets new world record 887.5 km travelled on single tank of hydrogen

#155

Post by GuB-42 »

thehappypm wrote: post #120
GuB-42 wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hydrogen has a great energy density, that's why it is used in rockets. It may have similar range as battery electric cars but it can scale better. It can be refueled in minutes, like gas cars. And the economy is based on using "waste" renewable energy. The problem is that solar panels and wind turbines don't produce energy when we need it the most (see: duck curve). The idea is to store that energy as hydrogen and us…

Hydrogen isn't used in rockets much. It's actually not energy dense enough compared to more exotic fuels.

You are right, but considering that many people think it is too dangerous to put hydrogen tanks in cars, I wonder what they are going to say about "exotic rocket fuels" :)

For reference, here is a quote from the Ignition! book about Chlorine trifluoride. It is an oxidizer, not a fuel but you get the idea.

> It is, of course, extremely toxic, but that’s the least of the problem. It is hypergolic with every known fuel, and so rapidly hypergolic that no ignition delay has ever been measured. It is also hypergolic with such things as cloth, wood, and test engineers, not to mention asbestos, sand, and water-with which it reacts explosively. It can be kept in some of the ordinary structural metals-steel, copper, aluminium, etc.-because of the formation of a thin film of insoluble metal fluoride which protects the bulk of the metal, just as the invisible coat of oxide on aluminium keeps it from burning up in the atmosphere. If, however, this coat is melted or scrubbed off, and has no chance to reform, the operator is confronted with the problem of coping with a metal-fluorine fire. For dealing with this situation, I have always recommended a good pair of running shoes.

Re: Hyundai Nexo sets new world record 887.5 km travelled on single tank of hydrogen

#156

Post by csharptwdec19 »

giantg2 wrote: post #132
tyingq wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Long fill times? This commercially available one says 48 hours to re-charge it. https://www.fuelcellstore.com/hydrogen-equipment/hydrogen-st...

Yeah, but ideally they'd be swappable. Similar to propane tank exchanges. Or even how some EVs were thinking about battery swap stations.

Ehh, I feel like there's some challenges there.

In the Toyota Mirai, for example, the tank is located under the passenger's seats, in a nice little 'braced' area. Likely chosen because it's the least likely location for the tank to get damaged in a collision. Also the challenge of either having to 'choose' between a 'swap' tank and a 'fill' tank, or a more complex tank that does both.

Re: Hyundai Nexo sets new world record 887.5 km travelled on single tank of hydrogen

#157

Post by rad_gruchalski »

bdamm wrote: post #119
rad_gruchalski wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being able to fill up the tank in 2 minutes is the value proposition. When driving a lot or long distances, it matters. Also, not everybody has the possibility to charge at home.

It isn’t that much of a value proposition. Modern EVs do fast charging pretty well. Given that it takes on the order of 10 minutes to pull off a freeway, navigate a traffic light or two, select a pump, pay, use the restroom, grab a snack from the store, and then navigate another intersection to get back on the freeway, adding 5 more minutes to that time to make it a fast charging stop is not really a big deal.

Right. Assuming that: there is a fast charger available, there is no queue, the charger is not broken. When I drive from Aachen to Berlin, if I have to stop, I stop at the pump, pay - takes 5 minutes, use the bathroom maybe, get in the car and leave. When I arrive in Berlin, I don’t have to look for a parking space where there is a charger, I just park wherever it is legal to park. I leave the meeting, get in the car, stop at the pump if it needs to be and off I go. Roundtrip takes 16 hours. I can do 1000km+ on 65 litres of diesel when driving reasonably or 750km when driving flat out where there is no speed limit. I can use aircon, indicators, satnav, charge stuff in the car and when the gas runs out, I am not forced to have a snack... how often can one snack.

There was a test done in Germany. Driving from Hamburg to Munich. Instead of 8 hours, it took over 11. Either a queue at the charger, or you have to adapt the route to get to the charger, or the app says fast charge available but no fast charge was available, or the charger is broken...

Sorry, I don’t believe in electric cars but I hold my fingers crossed for h2. Fortunately the hydrogen port built in Antwerpen gives some hope.

It’s quite funny looking at all these people in their expensive Taycans on the Autobahn. Either limping 110kph or standing on the hard shoulder with hazards on waiting for adac to turn up.

Re: Hyundai Nexo sets new world record 887.5 km travelled on single tank of hydrogen

#158

Post by tppiotrowski »

Thlom wrote: post #46
spuz wrote: post #2

It's not quite clear from the article, but is this a stock Hyundai Nexo or was it modified to add more fuel tanks? The stock range of the car is 413 miles or 664km, so how exactly was this new record achieved?

Tesla record is over 1000 km, so at this point I'm not sure why anyone is interested in hydrogen for personal vehicles over electric.

The storage problem:

You can make hydrogen from solar panels and store it until you need a refill vs. to charge your Tesla with solar, you'll need to surrender it in the middle of the day and wait for a full charge.

Re: Hyundai Nexo sets new world record 887.5 km travelled on single tank of hydrogen

#159

Post by ClumsyPilot »

AAA_Rating wrote: post #122
kazoomonger wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt that. I've got a Leaf that I've had for almost 2 years (i.e. lots of rubber on the road), and I'm not going back. Judging by the number of Teslas I see driving on the road every time I'm out, I don't think other people are going back either. This is in Minnesota too, with very icy and cold winters. I've seen that commonly brought up as an anti-EV talking point, but it's empirically wrong.

Hydrogen has the same infrastructure as gasoline. A "recharge" takes as much as 40 seconds. EVs have a negative impact in the quality of life of those who buy them because they cost more and have the problem of recharging time. It's simply an own goal you are doing to your team which in this case is your family because of woke ideals. Lower mantainence costs is also a legend unless we are talking about Toyotas and Be…

If you'd rather have a car that's twice less efficient (and twice more expencise to fuel) than wait 20 minutes to charge, then you are living in a bubble of privilidge that does not reflect life priorities for 90% of folks out there

Re: Hyundai Nexo sets new world record 887.5 km travelled on single tank of hydrogen

#160

Post by NikolaeVarius »

NikolaNovak wrote: post #116
KMnO4 wrote: post #12

Since “tank” isn’t a unit of measure, I suppose anyone could trivially break the record with a larger tank. From the article: > The Nexo consumed 6.27kg of H2 For comparison with the other production H2 cars: Toyota Mirai: 5.6kg Honda Clarity: 5.0kg Seems like a promising technology. My understanding is that the current blocker is infrastructure. It’s hard to pressurize up to 10,000 PSI, so many facilities are only a…

Gack... one of my pet peeves: 90% of my friends compare car millage in terms of "how much money I spend to refuel", completely ignoring: 1. Significantly different tank sizes - 53L to 70L on regular cars. 2. Different prices of gas (suburbs vs downtown, 87 vs 91 octane, etc) 3. Different habits - some refuel at 1/3 left, 1/4 left, 50km left, yellow light on, needle at the end of the gauge, etc It drives me absolutely…

I have never heard of anyone judging fuel cost outside of miles/kilometers per gallon/liters.

Where the hell do you live

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