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How Lucky Is Too Lucky in Minecraft?

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Re: How Lucky Is Too Lucky in Minecraft?

#81

Post by cwkoss »

Scaless wrote: post #40

Anyone who even remotely looked at the numbers and followed the situation can tell Dream cheated. The only people I see claiming otherwise are either infatuated with his cult of personality or otherwise just don't give a shit, "It's just a kids game who cares"? I care. I am heavily invested in speedrunning culture, but myself am mostly involved in the Halo community. I have a couple of world records of my own, and I…

I wonder if you could add steganography to the visual output to watermark runs in a way to prevent your tool from being used to pass off live gameplay.

Re: How Lucky Is Too Lucky in Minecraft?

#83

Post by pradn »

vinw wrote: post #29
thanatos519 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's troubling when individuals do this, but I find it especially brutal that "double down and never admit guilt" is the go-to strategy for most nation states and corporations.

What is a "nation state"? edit: Wikipedia says there are around 20 nation states. I don't know why you're picking those out specifically though.

A nation is a body of people that believe they are similar (usually ethnicity or language.) "An imagined community".

A state is the entity that taxes people, builds roads, maintains a military. It has a "monopoly on violence" in a particular territory.

A nation can be stateless - like the Kurds or Uyghurs. They have a cohesive self-identity, but lack their own state. Colloquially, "nation" can also mean "country" - think "national champion", but this more specific meaning exists as well.

It's rarely necessary to use the term "nation-state". Just using "state" is fine. I suspect people like using it because it has a nice ring to it and sounds serious.

Re: How Lucky Is Too Lucky in Minecraft?

#84

Post by fration »

gvx wrote: post #64
Scaless wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry if I did not explain it well, TAS does not mean just small helpful enhancements. In a TAS, the game is being played by the computer using a series of pre-programmed inputs. The fun in TASing is creating the most optimized set of inputs that completes the game in the shortest amount of time. There are often precise one-frame tricks or inputs that would not be possible for a human to perform but can be done easil…

No, I meant more like... I don't know if it's possible to verify if a run submitted for non-TAS leaderboard isn't secretly a TAS run and if not, the era of any integrity of non-TAS leaderboards would be over. So all non-TAS speedrunning would be non-competitive in the future, if there's such a thing as non-competitive speedrunning.

Sure, maybe this will be the case when the Halo speedrunning community starts paying millions of dollars in prizes... it's just not an issue. Speedrunning is a niche hobby, you don't get anything out of cheating, other than some temporary, minor clout.

Re: How Lucky Is Too Lucky in Minecraft?

#85

Post by beardyw »

gamblor956 wrote: post #78
pjc50 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The rest of the world would call "country", but American govspeak has decided to call "nation state" for some weird reason.

As a friend in the State Department exlained, it's because of the French and the British. Generally,"nation" is used to refer to an autonomous political unit, but "nation-state" refers specifically to a sovereign nation. And the French and the Brits have/had a lot of "nations" which are part of their "nation" and which thus are not "nation states" of their own. For example, Scotsland (and even technically Britain its…

"Britain" is a bit confusing. Most often it is used to refer to the UK itself, or sometimes to Great Britain the island. I doubt that's what you meant.

Re: How Lucky Is Too Lucky in Minecraft?

#87

Post by GauntletWizard »

flaubere wrote: post #75
yifanl wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Frame perfect tricks are often fairly easy to spot, and heavy usage of then are pretty indicative of TAS runs. Of course, there are folks who can do those frame perfect tricks, but if it ever does come to contention, then asking them to perform said trick live seems like a pretty easy way to confirm.

You just end up with a situation where there's intense competition to make cheatbots as good as possible, within the parameters of plausible deniability. People start meta-hacking to find tricks which don't improve the speedrun but keep it impossibly fast while making it look more convincingly human. People spend time obsessively training not to get good at the game, but to make it seem as though they would have been…

Some communities have required that you have recordings of inputs and recordings of your hands making those inputs as well. I don't know that it's perfect, but it does give potential to spot violations

It brings up the immensely boring tarpit of "What is sport?"; I don't care that e-bikes with enough power to climb Alpe d'Huez exist; It doesn't invalidate the cyclist's achievements (but doping does, and why is that?)

Re: How Lucky Is Too Lucky in Minecraft?

#88

Post by rcxdude »

Scaless wrote: post #40

Anyone who even remotely looked at the numbers and followed the situation can tell Dream cheated. The only people I see claiming otherwise are either infatuated with his cult of personality or otherwise just don't give a shit, "It's just a kids game who cares"? I care. I am heavily invested in speedrunning culture, but myself am mostly involved in the Halo community. I have a couple of world records of my own, and I…

People have tried to pass TAS runs off as RTA before, and often it's really obvious (especially to someone experienced at speedrunning the game) because TAS runs don't at all look like a human playing them.

Re: How Lucky Is Too Lucky in Minecraft?

#89

Post by rcxdude »

lovetocode wrote: post #72

Let's say that this person did cheat. We can generally agree that cheating is not ethical. But what happens when their celebrity sits upon a foundation of lies and because of their celebrity they amassed some serious wealth. If they built such a large viewer base from cheating, is there any legal recourse here? Or will they be allowed to walk away with their bags of money and the mark of shame?

Probably the biggest thing is he became famous from creating completely different videos. He didn't get his viewer base from cheating, he most likely cheated because he felt his skills deserved a good time but he didn't want to put in the grind which an RNG-heavy speedrun requires to get a good time. I recommend Karl Jobst's video on it, where he points out that skilled speedrunners don't cheat to get a better time, they cheat to get a good time faster.

Re: How Lucky Is Too Lucky in Minecraft?

#90

Post by 8note »

I don't see the point in tracking speed runs for a game that can be affected so heavily by luck

Making these drop rates deterministic for speed running would solve this issue. Same with not using a random seed

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