Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said • Hacker News Board

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#761

Post by varjag » Fri, May 14, 2021, 3:36 PM UTC

ZeroGravitas wrote: post #758

varjag wrote: post #752

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're just being intentionally obtuse. This attitude is exactly why it's pointless to list sources to pretend-inquisitive strangers on the Internet.

I honestly don't understand which bit of this quote, from your own source you don't understand: “Seriously people- STOP BUYING MASKS!” he wrote. “They are NOT effective in preventing general public from catching #Coronavirus, but if healthcare providers can’t get them to care for sick patients, it puts them and our communities at risk!” Is he saying that N95 masks don't work at all? That they only magically work for…

I don't think I ever challenged the plausible intent of the lie (to avoid shortages). That does not stop a lie being a lie, with long term, serious harm.

The masks ARE effective in prevention COVID (both ways), and there is no demonstrated risk in wearing masks wrong. They lied on both accounts providing fuel to anti-masker movement. And yes the logical inconsistency of insisting masks are ineffective yet are necessary to frontline workers were pointed out year ago - you're not breaking any fresh ground here.

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#762

Post by podgaj » Fri, May 14, 2021, 3:41 PM UTC

madhadron wrote: post #756

podgaj wrote: post #641

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because "Freedom". Seriously. I have explained this many times to my European friends. It is difficult to appreciate how people here will always want to push their own personal freedom of choice out as far as they can no matter how much someone else suffers.

This is unfairly downvoted. Much of the cultural indoctrination of Americans was to create a population that could go out and invade territory and commit genocide, which leads directly to this kind of antisocial behavior.

Thank you for this. The fact that I’m getting downvoted on this scares me and makes me want to quit everything and hide.

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#763

Post by hitpointdrew » Fri, May 14, 2021, 3:52 PM UTC

syops wrote: post #623

ppf wrote: post #616

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Counterpoint: many atrocities have been made acceptable to the general population, in the name of "public health" (or at least, the greater public good). For me, "the greater good" does not over-ride personal critical analysis.

The greater good in this case means following rules/mandates that do not in any way lead to an outcome of supporting atrocities. There is no valid critical analysis by which one concludes that not wearing masks or engaging in social distancing is a fight against atrocities.

>There is no valid critical analysis by which one concludes that not wearing masks or engaging in social distancing is a fight against atrocities.

100 % disagree. The "social distancing" has caused state governments to take extreme measures closing down many business. The distancing has also put undo stress upon families. How many business have closed permanently? How many people are now suffering major depression due to these policies? How many people have committed suicide due to economic or relational hardship due to these polices? Masks and social distancing have done WAY more harm, than if we just ignored the virus and went about our lives.

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#764

Post by zamalek » Fri, May 14, 2021, 3:54 PM UTC

estaseuropano wrote: post #269

livinginfear wrote: post #221

I think it's worth noting that among the demographics that frequent this site there is ostensibly a deep distrust and skepticism of the American government on matters of surveillance, and law enforcement. Yet simultaneously there is ostensibly a high degree of trust in the motives and competency of the American government when it comes to COVID. There's been multiple threads lately, including one that is on the front…

As a European I'm quite surprised how deep the conspiracy theories and suspicions against the state go in the US. You don't need tp take everything at face value, but to be so suspicious of essential institutions like the CDC seems crazy to me. Except for a vocal but tiny minority there's a lot of trust in the institutions of the EU and (Western) Europe, where citizrns at most worry about incompetence, not malicious…

This zeitgeist goes back to the creation of America: the people were mistreated by the monarchy. Distrust and accountability to the government is baked into the American constitution (that accountability has succeeded in some areas, as much as it has failed in others).

It seems that many confuse science for government, which is understandable given the very recent muzzling of science for political gain.

Fauci's facial expressions during and after the recent regime have been a pretty good litmus for me: he's a scientist that's bad a hiding his emotions. That allows me to figure out when to trust what him and his colleagues want to, or have been forced to, say.

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#765

Post by [deleted] » Fri, May 14, 2021, 3:54 PM UTC

redisman wrote: post #452

void_mint wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How long until coastal and urban counties reach 95%? Literally never. I am hoping for 60%.

Seattle is already mostly above 60%, up to 87% https://kingcounty.gov/depts/health/covid-19/data/vaccinatio...

[deleted]

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#766

Post by stolenmerch » Fri, May 14, 2021, 4:03 PM UTC

ceejayoz wrote: post #755

stolenmerch wrote: post #723

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> no harm has been done This isn't the evaluation we're having though. If it was purely a personal choice to wear one or not then maybe. As it stands, most people were compelled by law to wear a mask under every circumstance whether it made sense or not. The argument quickly went from "wear a mask to protect yourself" to "everyone MUST wear a mask under every situation". It then split into two silly sides signally to…

> As it stands, most people were compelled by law to wear a mask under every circumstance whether it made sense or not. The CDC's recommendations changed yesterday . It'll take a couple days for states to adjust accordingly.

Of course. I'm talking about the life we all had for over a year and some of the harm it did.

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#767

Post by kbelder » Fri, May 14, 2021, 4:06 PM UTC

bb123 wrote: post #448

nexuist wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a worryingly large constituency, mostly on Twitter, who believe that any unjust death at all is damning evidence that all of our institutions and economic systems must be destroyed and rebuilt. Of course unjust death is tragic, but it's not an excuse to throw out all of society and start over again. I think many of these people saw mask mandates as that "rebuilding society" step, and to get rid of it so quic…

I’d be pretty careful drawing any conclusions about the mood of the nation from Twitter. The Twitter crowd are very loud and quite extremist but I believe they are small in number. To be honest I’d just avoid Twitter all together. Nothing good comes out of it.

You could post this in nearly every hackernews thread and I'd upvote you each time for being the most relevant comment on the page.

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#768

Post by giardini » Fri, May 14, 2021, 4:09 PM UTC

estaseuropano wrote: post #269

livinginfear wrote: post #221

I think it's worth noting that among the demographics that frequent this site there is ostensibly a deep distrust and skepticism of the American government on matters of surveillance, and law enforcement. Yet simultaneously there is ostensibly a high degree of trust in the motives and competency of the American government when it comes to COVID. There's been multiple threads lately, including one that is on the front…

As a European I'm quite surprised how deep the conspiracy theories and suspicions against the state go in the US. You don't need tp take everything at face value, but to be so suspicious of essential institutions like the CDC seems crazy to me. Except for a vocal but tiny minority there's a lot of trust in the institutions of the EU and (Western) Europe, where citizrns at most worry about incompetence, not malicious…

"...to be so suspicious of essential institutions like the CDC seems crazy to me."

To NOT be suspicious of institutions, essential or not, seems crazy to me. As Adam Smith said:

"People of the same trade seldom meet together, even for merriment and diversion, but the conversation ends in a conspiracy against the public, or in some contrivance to raise prices."

"It is impossible indeed to prevent such meetings, by any law which either could be executed, or would be consistent with liberty and justice. But though the law cannot hinder people of the same trade from sometimes assembling together, it ought to do nothing to facilitate such assemblies; much less to render them necessary. A regulation which obliges all those of the same trade in a particular town to enter their names and places of abode in a public register, facilitates such assemblies. . . . A regulation which enables those of the same trade to tax themselves in order to provide for their poor, their sick, their widows, and orphans, by giving them a common interest to manage, renders such assemblies necessary. An incorporation not only renders them necessary, but makes the act of the majority binding upon the whole."

– Adam Smith, An Inquiry into the Nature and Causes of the Wealth of Nations, Book I, Chapter X.

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#769

Post by krapp » Fri, May 14, 2021, 4:09 PM UTC

evandijk70 wrote: post #401

Rebelgecko wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the CDC's original statements on masks (they aren't necessary, they're only effective at preventing the spread of COVID if the wearer has a medical degree, don't wear masks on planes, etc) contributed a lot to the distrust and politicization of mask wearing. When you expect an institution to always be impartial and tell the truth, those sorts of white lies can quickly erode trust.

The Dutch CDC (RIVM) made the same statements. As a result, people don't really believe in masks here either, but it not a big political issue. I am not sure why the mask became such a symbol for the corona measures in the US, but not here.

>I am not sure why the mask became such a symbol for the corona measures in the US, but not here.

Because Donald Trump wanted to downplay the potential scale of the pandemic, believing it distracted from his narrative of economic success playing into his re-election, so he attributed reporting on the pandemic to a "Democratic hoax," feeding into right-wing mistrust of the motives behind both mainstream media reportage and legal measures like lockdowns, which many considered unconstitutional and a pretext for installing a leftist police state.

Also because Trump refused to wear a mask publicly, considering it a display of weakness in front of the "liberal media" which he considered to be the enemy, and would often ridicule people who did wear a mask.

As a result, among Trump supporting Republicans, wearing a mask became associated with sheep-like submission to "leftist' (read: Democratic) authoritarianism, and not wearing a mask became a display of defiance along with the MAGA caps.

It is impossible to consider the phenomenon of the way masks are perceived in the US today outside of the context of the atmosphere of deep paranoia, polarization, mistrust of the press and "international" organizations created by the Trump administration, or the effect of conspiracy theories and misinformation spread across social media by QAnon and Trump supporters.

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#770

Post by Siira » Fri, May 14, 2021, 4:10 PM UTC

syops wrote: post #704

Siira wrote: post #662

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It adds up to significant unnecessary suffering. It’s clear to me that doing, e.g., human challenge vaccine trials was a much more cost-effective measure (nowadays just get the bloody vaccine and be done with pandemic), and masks are just a weak band-aid for which I have not seen much more evidence since the Slatestarcodex review (which called CDC on its bullshit very early: masks probably help a bit, but not much, a…

Wearing a mask is not suffering. If you think this then you have a badly misconstrued idea of what the word suffering means.

Now you're just gaslighting.