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Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

nytimes.com

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Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#591

Post by teachingassist »

livinginfear wrote: post #221

I think it's worth noting that among the demographics that frequent this site there is ostensibly a deep distrust and skepticism of the American government on matters of surveillance, and law enforcement. Yet simultaneously there is ostensibly a high degree of trust in the motives and competency of the American government when it comes to COVID. There's been multiple threads lately, including one that is on the front…

A doctor friend of mine told me, at the start of the pandemic, that they found it important to correctly follow Public Health advice whether or not they (an expert) agreed with all of it.

The importance of following the principles for public health is greater than the importance of the advice being unbiasedly perfect at every moment.

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#592

Post by cm2187 »

generj wrote: post #3

It’s good to give better incentives for people to be vaccinated, as many have urged for some time. I worry this carrot isn’t tied to an adequate stick - the unvaccinated can simply go without a mask regardless of their status. Will this move actually counter our slowing vaccination rates?

So wearing a mask as a punishment? That will further trust in public health policies.

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#593

Post by weezin »

kelnos wrote: post #503
stopping wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anecdotally, dozens of people in my social circle (aged 30-50) reported that the worst vaccine side effects were (1) a sore arm and (2) 24-48 hours of sleepy brain fog (even after the second dose). Among first and second degree connections on Facebook, I know of exactly two people who experienced the full gamut of flu-like symptoms, such as fever, chills, and whole-body aches for a day or two. Take this with a grain…

Anecdotally, dozens of people in my social circle (aged 25-45 or so reported severe side effects, including at least three or four of sore arm, fever, chills, headaches, exhaustion, body aches, nausea, and brain fog. My girlfriend and I had five of them, for an entire day. I'm not sure if your group's experience or mine is more typical. That's why comprehensive data is required to sort things out, and limited-number…

People with more robust immune systems (young people often) experience higher side effects from vaccination.

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#594

Post by maxerickson »

refurb wrote: post #276
okaram wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They can , but it is very unlikely.

Nope. Check out Singapore’s latest cluster. Multiple fully vaccinated people infected (9 at last count) who are spreading it to others.

https://www.moh.gov.sg/news-highlights/details/24-new-cases-... has the cases, with vaccination information.

I think there's not enough information there to make conclusions about the vaccines. There's roughly a million vaccinated people in Singapore, a small number of people that are vaccinated and still get sick is expected even with very efficacious vaccines.

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#595

Post by ddxxdd »

throwaway4good wrote: post #585
ddxxdd wrote: post #428

Earlier quoted context omitted.

2 weeks of asymptomatic spread has been known about since late January (edit: in 2020). [0] And Fauci said at one point (2/14/2020): “There is no reason for anyone right now in the United States, with regard to coronavirus, to wear a mask” [1] And at another point (6/15/2020): "[...] we were concerned the public health community, and many people were saying this, were concerned that it was at a time when personal pro…

Back in January 2020 for every medical authority saying that the virus is airborne there was at least one saying: We expect this to be similar to a harsh flu season at worst, at best the virus will burn out locally. It takes time for knowledge to get formulated, broadly accepted, and turn into actual policy. It has to be like that. Most of the time, being prepared but doing nothing is the best thing to. SARS, H1N1, E…

Have you ever heard of Aumann's Agreement Theorem? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aumann%27s_agreement_theorem

If scientists are looking at the same data and the same set of facts, then they cannot disagree.

Back when Hong Kong health authorities were warning about 14 days of asymptomatic spread, Chinese authorities had already placed multiple cities under martial law and set up concentration camps for infected people. It's absurd that the West was still in a "wait-and-see" mindset.

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#596

Post by Tade0 »

walrus01 wrote: post #434

I have a personal theory that humans do not fully understand death rate when it's spread out widely across many geographic areas. Let's say, for instance, that the covid19 death rate is about 450 people a day. It might be more or less than that right now, I haven't specifically checked (but I do recall that it's easily been 2000-3000 a day for some periods of time in very recent memory). But that might be 450 people…

I think it has a lot to do with expectations and how they need to change in light of such an event.

In 2017 there were no commercial passenger jet deaths - that's how amazingly safe these machines are. Any such crash casts doubt on this idea.

Imagine the difference between "literally perfectly safe" and "can (rarely) cause death".

Same with events like 9/11 - no one going to work that day expected to die like this just hours later.

Pneumonia has a death rate of up to 10% among hospitalized patients(mostly older folks), so people who drop off their parent at the hospital are often already mentally preparing for the worst.

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#597

Post by sfifs »

cycomanic wrote: post #374
harry8 wrote: post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please also note it is unnecessary to do any additional analysis to describe the example cited as a "lie." We know it was a deliberate lie because the then head of the CDC has said so [1] - unless he was lying about claiming he was lying there's not much doubt in that case. The CDC lie when it suits them isn't something that's really debatable. Does it matter that they lied? This is the proposition that can be debate…

I know this gets repeated a lot, but that doesn't make it more true. Show me the quote where he said "we lied about masks", and "we changed our message about masks" doesn't count. The reality is that the knowledge about Covid changed significantly in march/April last year. In particular the understanding about unsymptomatic spread lead to a significant change of thinking. That makes sense, if the virus only spreads f…

Look it's always been known since the very early days of Wuhan crisis that masks will significantly reduce spread and risk (from past smaller pandemics & the nature of transmission of this virus). The various health organizations simply decided to prioritize supply for the medical community till production could ramp up by making statements that dissuade people from panic buying (as happened with say Toilet paper and flour later). While it's understandable, it doesn't make the early statements not "lies" and erosion in trust is a consequence.

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#598

Post by DanBC »

anoncake wrote: post #589
DanBC wrote: post #583

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Children grow into adults. We're protecting those future adults.

Against what, a pandemic that's over by then? For more than a year, children's interests have been largely ignored, their well-being and education sacrificed for the sake of scared adults. Now we start vaccinating them, which doesn't actually benefit them but does benefit aforementioned adults, to protect them just in case they catch Covid after the pandemic is over, but not until they're old enough that this is actu…

What makes you think the pandemic is over?

New variants are still emerging, and some of them are pretty worrying. https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/...

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#599

Post by DanBC »

sfifs wrote: post #597
cycomanic wrote: post #374

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know this gets repeated a lot, but that doesn't make it more true. Show me the quote where he said "we lied about masks", and "we changed our message about masks" doesn't count. The reality is that the knowledge about Covid changed significantly in march/April last year. In particular the understanding about unsymptomatic spread lead to a significant change of thinking. That makes sense, if the virus only spreads f…

Look it's always been known since the very early days of Wuhan crisis that masks will significantly reduce spread and risk (from past smaller pandemics & the nature of transmission of this virus). The various health organizations simply decided to prioritize supply for the medical community till production could ramp up by making statements that dissuade people from panic buying (as happened with say Toilet paper and…

> Look it's always been known since the very early days of Wuhan crisis that masks will significantly reduce spread and risk (from past smaller pandemics & the nature of transmission of this virus)

We have a lot of research into mask use, both to protect the wearer and to protect people around the wearer.

Can you point to any that you think CDC should have been using to support mask wearing in the general public?

You can argue about the level of evidence required (organisations like CDC strongly prefer well run meta analyses or a bunch of RCTs), but to say "it's always been known" simply isn't true.

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#600

Post by concordDance »

LordAtlas wrote: post #584
concordDance wrote: post #478

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I personally follow the CDC guidelines I don't believe you. Do you use a food thermometer when cooking food? Do you make sure to cook eggs until the yoke is firm? If you're a woman, do you make sure you never have more than 1 (alcoholic) drink in a particular day? Do you never eat rare steak? People ignore almost everything the CDC says in their regular lives as the CDC is completely optimizing for health, not qual…

Those are FDA guidelines, not CDC. And the word is "yolk", not "yoke".

Found them on cdc.gov. e.g. https://www.cdc.gov/foodsafety/foods-linked-illness.html
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