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Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

nytimes.com

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Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#561

Post by scrollaway »

vmception wrote: post #170
brundolf wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Keep in mind there are some who genuinely can't get it, for one medical reason or another. We still need to keep them safe.

Keep in mind that that’s not gonna happen. Unless the President said that, your message is not going to get across. 848 Americans died today marked as a Covid contributed death. There were lockdowns across 90% of the country a year ago when less people were dying from this. So we’re just past that, sorry. Good luck to them. The goal was just to keep ICU capacity available for the normal distribution of emergencies in…

You cannot compare death and infection numbers with those of a year ago when zero people were vaccinated and the vaccine was still months away.

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#562

Post by brobdingnagians »

> How to trust that unvaccinated neighbors will wear masks when they should?

I find this sentiment curious. It seems to imply that some people would rather that everyone suffer masking than accept that some will not be masked against recommendation. It bleeds over into other things. If we see our neighbour doing something we don't like, we think "there should be a law against that!"

There is a lot of distrust and desire to control the behaviour of others in our society. It is a very common human attribute and reminds me of the famous quote from Paradise Lost: "Better to reign in Hell, then serve in Heav'n"

Sometimes, it is better to accept that others will do things that we think are stupid or even immoral, but be grateful that they will let us do things that they think are stupid. It takes empathy and humility to accept that other people disagree with us. The desire for control is a dangerous beast.

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#563

Post by stjohnswarts »

evandijk70 wrote: post #401
Rebelgecko wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the CDC's original statements on masks (they aren't necessary, they're only effective at preventing the spread of COVID if the wearer has a medical degree, don't wear masks on planes, etc) contributed a lot to the distrust and politicization of mask wearing. When you expect an institution to always be impartial and tell the truth, those sorts of white lies can quickly erode trust.

The Dutch CDC (RIVM) made the same statements. As a result, people don't really believe in masks here either, but it not a big political issue. I am not sure why the mask became such a symbol for the corona measures in the US, but not here.

Your population no doubt trusts government a lot more. Also republicans here more or less turned trump into a Messianic figure and quit listening to science. It’s getting scary over here to be honest

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#564

Post by kelnos »

quickthrowman wrote: post #107
ineedasername wrote: post #91

I don't really understand how places looking to align their precautions with CDC guidelines can do this. We don't have any required vaccination "passport", so if a movie theatre says vaccinated customers don't have to wear masks, how can they possibly tell who is vaccinated without relying on a dubious honor system?

They won’t, they’ll simply rescind the mask mandates and let the vaccine skeptics fend for themselves. Minnesota will be doing this within 6 weeks, I’m sure it’ll be more states soon, if not already.

The problem is that those who can't get the vaccine due to allergies or other medical conditions either a) then get lumped in with the skeptics to fend for themselves, or b) have to further increase their level of precautions and isolate from society.

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#565

Post by scrollaway »

anoncake wrote: post #530
stjohnswarts wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kids are more likely to die in the car/bus on the way to school than by covid. Still it's good to get them vaccinated so they don't end up killing older people.

Forcing children (or anyone really) to undergo a medical procedure for the benefit of other people is evil.

What the fuck? You're aware that we vaccinate children for a lot of things, right?

It's not evil, it's common sense. COVID may be the first pandemic you've lived through/remembered, but it's not the first pandemic, and there are far more dangerous diseases out there we don't want coming back.

I was vaccinated as a child of things i am still immune to today.

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#566

Post by dgfitz »

oceanplexian wrote: post #234
dgfitz wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because masks haven been politicized. Good news be damned.

I hear this statement a lot and don't get it. Of course masks are politicized. Everything in modern day society is political in some way or another, since everything can be interpreted to suit some political ideology or another.

Correct. That is the problem. I think you do actually “get it.”

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#567

Post by kelnos »

niij wrote: post #201
ineedasername wrote: post #91

I don't really understand how places looking to align their precautions with CDC guidelines can do this. We don't have any required vaccination "passport", so if a movie theatre says vaccinated customers don't have to wear masks, how can they possibly tell who is vaccinated without relying on a dubious honor system?

Being vaccinated doesn't stop an individual from spreading it. It just prevents them from being severely affected. Vaccinations have been open to 18+ for long enough now. If you're not vaccinated at this point then you either can't be (and should be wearing a mask) or aren't concerned about COVID anyway. Considering that, what is the purpose of a vaccine passport? Who does it help?

It's been little more than a month since vaccinations have been open to 18+. Even if you managed to snag an appointment on day one when things opened up, you still aren't fully protected (based on the guidelines, anyway) if you got one of the 2-dose vaccines.

Wearing a mask and distancing probably provides much less protection than a vaccine. So if you want to be vaccinated but can't be, being out among the people who inevitably have not been vaccinated but will claim to be so they can stop wearing a mask will be more dangerous to you.

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#568

Post by avar »

walrus01 wrote: post #434

I have a personal theory that humans do not fully understand death rate when it's spread out widely across many geographic areas. Let's say, for instance, that the covid19 death rate is about 450 people a day. It might be more or less than that right now, I haven't specifically checked (but I do recall that it's easily been 2000-3000 a day for some periods of time in very recent memory). But that might be 450 people…

> What changed? It's the same number of dead people, right?

Aside from general aviation concerns, that 747-400 will have young families, infants and children on board, whereas exposing everyone on that 747-400 to COVID-19 would mostly result in the deaths of the elderly and the infirm.

If we had an outbreak of Spanish flu with the same overall death rate it would not be as bad. It would be much worse. The deaths of the young who have their whole life ahead of them is a much worse outcome than someone who statistically would be dead anyway from old age or other disease in a few years.

This is intuitively understandable to every human being. If a 95 year old dies in their sleep we mourn them but think "wow, they made it to 95!". If an infant dies in their sleep it's a tragedy.

I genuinely don't understand why everyone has insisted on talking about COVID-19 in terms of absolute deaths. For everything else like heart disease etc. we talk about statistically "losing X years of life".

The median age of death for COVID-19 has been at or above the statistical life expectancy.

In the worst case we could have an outbreak of another strain of Coronavirus next year that'll kill 1/2 as many as COVID-19, but disproportionately target those under 10 years of age. Because of this nonsensical messaging people will think "oh, only half as bad as COVID-19".

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#569

Post by [deleted] »

niij wrote: post #201
ineedasername wrote: post #91

I don't really understand how places looking to align their precautions with CDC guidelines can do this. We don't have any required vaccination "passport", so if a movie theatre says vaccinated customers don't have to wear masks, how can they possibly tell who is vaccinated without relying on a dubious honor system?

Being vaccinated doesn't stop an individual from spreading it. It just prevents them from being severely affected. Vaccinations have been open to 18+ for long enough now. If you're not vaccinated at this point then you either can't be (and should be wearing a mask) or aren't concerned about COVID anyway. Considering that, what is the purpose of a vaccine passport? Who does it help?

[deleted]

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#570

Post by weezin »

stopping wrote: post #342
covidthrow wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody, directly. Who gets hurt if social structure is affected by the apparent identity of masking? There are plenty of instances of catastrophic social division due to physical differences. I think your choice should be your own, and based on health and other reasons. But it's pretty myopic to ignore the history of superficial social striations.

> But it's pretty myopic to ignore the history of superficial social striations. I'm having difficulty understanding what this comment is implying. Should other peoples' opinions and reactions to wearing a mask (or not wearing a mask) be a factor in one's own individual decision making?

To me I read it as a physical representation of what is going on online. People assuming other peoples beliefs based on if they are wearing a mask. The striation would be people's biases towards people wearing mask and not wearing mask. Despite the actual health risk now/ in the future.
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