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Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

nytimes.com

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Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#291

Post by dehrmann »

anthonygd wrote: post #35
noodlesUK wrote: post #6

I’ve been in the US throughout this pandemic, and I’ve had to take it extremely seriously because of vulnerable people I live with. I’m glad to be vaccinated and for my life (and my family’s) to be returning to normal. I expect that I’ll continue wearing a mask from time to time even years from now if it becomes socially acceptable, because I like both the anonymity, and the wonders it does for my seasonal allergies.…

The problem you're describing is real and something that needs to be resolved. I'm assuming six months ago you would have told someone to wear a mask because that's what science says. Now you're ignoring the science to make a statement. Was it lip-service and posturing 6 months ago or is it now? Do you value science or not? You're telling the anti-mask/anti-vax people that yes it really was just bullshit and it was n…

I read something about this in The Atlantic titled "The Liberals Who Can’t Quit Lockdown." Some people's identities have become tied up in this, so giving up their mask could feel like supporting Trump, sending the message that they don't care, or give up part of who they are.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2021/05/liberal...

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#292

Post by covidthrow »

jjnoakes wrote: post #196
brighton36 wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a trolley problem. Someone gets hurt if you put the mask on, someone gets hurt if you don't put the mask on. You're assuming that there is an objectively good decision here.

Who gets hurt if I wear a mask?

Nobody, directly.

Who gets hurt if social structure is affected by the apparent identity of masking? There are plenty of instances of catastrophic social division due to physical differences.

I think your choice should be your own, and based on health and other reasons. But it's pretty myopic to ignore the history of superficial social striations.

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#293

Post by stopping »

brighton36 wrote: post #191
arilotter wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

nobody gets hurt if you put the mask on.

Lets wait to see what the economic impacts of this fear culture brings, before announcing there are no casualties.

Equating basic precautionary measures with fear culture doesn't sound right. There's absolutely nothing inherently wrong with an individual deciding to wear a mask. I do agree that the tribalism that surrounds masks is ugly and harmful to society as a whole, but I'm fundamentally opposed to throwing away smart, simple solutions just because they're stained by politics.

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#294

Post by Rebelgecko »

estaseuropano wrote: post #269
livinginfear wrote: post #221

I think it's worth noting that among the demographics that frequent this site there is ostensibly a deep distrust and skepticism of the American government on matters of surveillance, and law enforcement. Yet simultaneously there is ostensibly a high degree of trust in the motives and competency of the American government when it comes to COVID. There's been multiple threads lately, including one that is on the front…

As a European I'm quite surprised how deep the conspiracy theories and suspicions against the state go in the US. You don't need tp take everything at face value, but to be so suspicious of essential institutions like the CDC seems crazy to me. Except for a vocal but tiny minority there's a lot of trust in the institutions of the EU and (Western) Europe, where citizrns at most worry about incompetence, not malicious…

I think the CDC's original statements on masks (they aren't necessary, they're only effective at preventing the spread of COVID if the wearer has a medical degree, don't wear masks on planes, etc) contributed a lot to the distrust and politicization of mask wearing.

When you expect an institution to always be impartial and tell the truth, those sorts of white lies can quickly erode trust.

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#295

Post by xwolfi »

livinginfear wrote: post #221

I think it's worth noting that among the demographics that frequent this site there is ostensibly a deep distrust and skepticism of the American government on matters of surveillance, and law enforcement. Yet simultaneously there is ostensibly a high degree of trust in the motives and competency of the American government when it comes to COVID. There's been multiple threads lately, including one that is on the front…

I m in Hong Kong and I must be living in the definition of a conspiracy against me, but I still dont think most of the COVID measures here have been to shut me up or to prevent me to exercise political freedom. There simply is no choice, we must vaccinate, we must help each other, we must abstain from yelling loudly for a while.

Possibly the aftermath will be the crime, to continue the measure when there is no need, but we reached 200 death in a megalopolis of 8M people only because we shut the fuck up a bit and synchronized our behaviour.

In a word, I dont think the american CDC main goal is to profit or enjoy a sadist power bath... at worst, they re honestly misguided, I think.

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#296

Post by rntksi »

unethical_ban wrote: post #252
livinginfear wrote: post #221

I think it's worth noting that among the demographics that frequent this site there is ostensibly a deep distrust and skepticism of the American government on matters of surveillance, and law enforcement. Yet simultaneously there is ostensibly a high degree of trust in the motives and competency of the American government when it comes to COVID. There's been multiple threads lately, including one that is on the front…

The CDC is not law enforcement. The talent it attracts, its mission statement, its mode of operation are all different. The statements of fact they release pertain to public health with no human adversarial motives. The research they use to substantiate their claims can be peer reviewed, duplicated and critiqued.

Agreed. Though from experience and what I've read, they do have certain questionable commercial motives. Should call this out everytime.

https://www.technologyreview.com/2021/01/30/1017086/cdc-44-m... https://projects.propublica.org/coronavirus-contracts/contra...

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#297

Post by jwilber »

wyldfire wrote: post #115
ryandrake wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really hope it was satire but I can’t tell anymore. If not, I guess now we add “dehumanization” to the list of horrible effects of wearing a little piece of cloth on your face. I really don’t get why so many people are willing to die on this particular silly hill.

I don't have super strong passions here. But reverting to fashion norms seems pretty appropriate, once it's safe. If it's not safe now, when would it be? People do take a lot of cues from facial expressions and at least in "the West" we rarely wear face coverings. So there's definitely some (mild?) cost to wearing the mask, too. I will say this, though -- organizations that insist on compelling others to wear masks o…

I think people are purposely under-emphasizing the amount of facial communication still possible with a mask on. Never mind that all these dehumanization scenarios conveniently assume people have somehow lost all ability to utter any sort of noise.

If someone wants to continue wearing a mask for a reason with no harmful externalities (e.g. allergies, privacy), respect their personal freedoms and let them.

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#298

Post by dehrmann »

jwilber wrote: post #53
abduhl wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't think that the continual dehumanization of people into creatures with eyes, hair, and without emotions is a downside to wearing a mask in public? A smile as you hold the elevator door for someone goes unseen; all the other person gets is a withering stare from behind a sterile surgeon's mask. A joke that's good enough to make someone grin but not laugh is now a joke that falls flat on its face. An inappropr…

Surely this is satire.

I hope it's not. There's a lot of non-verbal communication we miss when wearing masks. It's not as bad as how tone can be hard to communicate on the internet, but it's still not as good as being able to read someone's facial expressions.

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#299

Post by dlp211 »

remarkEon wrote: post #24
sacomo wrote: post #5

Vaccines still aren't 100%. This is bad advice from the CDC. It will only lead to anti-masker/vaxxers using this as an excuse for not wearing a mask. Even the fully vaccinated should be wearing a mask around other people. 94%/97% is not 100%. edit: Japan is a good example for how masks have drastically reduced the number of infected due to mask culture. Japan has half the US population and still isn't vaccinating the…

No. The continual insistence by some - many in prominent leadership positions - that nothing changes after you get vaccinated is what was hurting confidence that the vaccine works. If it works, why would I have to act like it doesn't? People can make their own judgements about their personal risk, but I'm not waiting until some arbitrary effectivity point (99%? 99.9%? 99.99%?) to go back to normal. I'll be in the gym…

When they made those statements, it was nothing changes for now. We were always going to get to this point where enough people became vaccinated and others had enough of a natural immunity that we would start to open up, take off the masks, and get to normal. You couldn't do that when 10% of people had the vaccine dose. Did people really think that the government was going to forever make people where masks and to social distance and all the other measures?

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#300

Post by kiawe_fire »

kibwen wrote: post #56
generj wrote: post #3

It’s good to give better incentives for people to be vaccinated, as many have urged for some time. I worry this carrot isn’t tied to an adequate stick - the unvaccinated can simply go without a mask regardless of their status. Will this move actually counter our slowing vaccination rates?

Ohio is holding five million-dollar lottery drawings for which only vaccinated people are eligible, and I expect other states to follow suit: https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2021/0...

I sincerely hope the trend of tying very personal, individual healthcare decisions with what is essentially gambling, NEVER spreads beyond the COVID vaccine.

I don’t know of many other ways to cheapen the significance of one’s own healthcare or the science that drives it than something like this.

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