Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Ask HN: How to negotiate continuing to work remotely?

news.ycombinator.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

181–190 of 290 posts

Re: Ask HN: How to negotiate continuing to work remotely?

#181

Post by sgtnoodle »

caseybettle wrote: post #93

I said I am moving to another city do you want me to try remote working or not? Yes. Within 3 months my productivity rose 5x, I received a large raise. Who knew not working in the equivalent of a hog barn (yes I have debugged code in a literal hog barn, one very thin door from the action) would raise your efficiency?

Lol, I've been working out of a cattle ranch for the past 5 years. It's usually pretty quite though. After hardly touching it for a year due to COVID, today I was inspired to clean my desk. There was probably a millimeter thick of dust in some places.

Re: Ask HN: How to negotiate continuing to work remotely?

#182

Post by lmilcin »

I have made sure my bosses and team are happy with me working remotely.

That may have required me to do some extra. I am taking up meetings and emergencies outside my time zone working hours, I am helping the team to work better remotely and I invested extra in good video and audio setup.

Re: Ask HN: How to negotiate continuing to work remotely?

#183

Post by amir734jj »

crossroadsguy wrote: post #143

Tell, don’t ask. Personally I’d like to go back to office. But I do understand why many people may not want to.

Because not everyone has a perfect health. I suffer from asthma and have autoimmune desease. I much prefer to work from home.

Re: Ask HN: How to negotiate continuing to work remotely?

#184

Post by lmilcin »

pfp wrote: post #56

Don't negotiate. Dictate. I'm not joking either. I tried negotiating this (pre-covid), only to get a "final offer" of a measly couple of remote days etc. Being on the spectrum, I took their word at face value, found another job that does 100% remote, and put in my resignation. Surprisingly that "absolutely final" position wasn't that final anymore, and they'd've rather had me remote than not at all. Had the new job n…

> Don't negotiate. Dictate.

Everything is a negotiation. You have only limited power over your employer.

If you think you can "dictate", you don't understand the relationship you have.

If what you think "dictating" works, that is because it really is a negotiation and your employer decided they will meet your demands.

"Dictating" may get you a label attached, that you are hard to negotiate with, fussy, capricious, etc.

Don't do it. It is much better to sound reasonable because it has much better chance to be met with reasonable answer.

Re: Ask HN: How to negotiate continuing to work remotely?

#185

Post by hosh »

perl4ever wrote: post #82
pfp wrote: post #56

Don't negotiate. Dictate. I'm not joking either. I tried negotiating this (pre-covid), only to get a "final offer" of a measly couple of remote days etc. Being on the spectrum, I took their word at face value, found another job that does 100% remote, and put in my resignation. Surprisingly that "absolutely final" position wasn't that final anymore, and they'd've rather had me remote than not at all. Had the new job n…

>Being on the spectrum I don't think that is why you made a suboptimal choice; I think that's why you incorrectly think you made a suboptimal choice. They might regret losing you, but that doesn't mean that good things would have happened if you tried to apply leverage before. The act of trying to force someone to do something, whether by (implied) threat, logic, emotional manipulation, or whatever, can mortally woun…

Also, the counter-offer to stay is not always that great either:

1. The underlying problem was still there — the management did not value your work to have a thoughtful policy that worked for both you and your employer. Rather than working with you, they chose an adversarial approach.

2. If you had gone back, they now know you can leave, so they will be looking to replace you as soon as they can, possibly even have you train their replacement.

3. Some independent contracting work for continuity may be appropriate if you care about the team and they had treated you well.

4. It is easier to get hired while you still have a job than while you do not.

Re: Ask HN: How to negotiate continuing to work remotely?

#187

Post by cosmodisk »

jasonkester wrote: post #178
pfp wrote: post #56

Don't negotiate. Dictate. I'm not joking either. I tried negotiating this (pre-covid), only to get a "final offer" of a measly couple of remote days etc. Being on the spectrum, I took their word at face value, found another job that does 100% remote, and put in my resignation. Surprisingly that "absolutely final" position wasn't that final anymore, and they'd've rather had me remote than not at all. Had the new job n…

Don't negotiate. Dictate. If you're already in place and have proven that you're good at what you do, this is the way to go. "I wanted to let you know that I'll be staying remote from here on out. This last year has been a huge improvement in quality of life for me, and honestly I couldn't imagine working out of an office again. I'd love to stay with you guys (this is a great team), so let me know if that's an option…

We went from office based to 100% remote since March last year. Some people were very against it but changed their minds since. Some people do want to return but the reasons are more related to management and proper target setting than the actual need of being in the office. We even did an employee survey with 20 or so questions about remote vs onsite work and majority don't want to return to office. Still, there was some push to return for some when things improve. Some said they'll simply quit their jobs if asked to return,while I simply said that I don't see a reason to spend 3h on commuting just to sit in the office and email/call my colleagues. My department was left alone. Eventually I agreed to work remotely from a different country for a prolonged period.

Re: Ask HN: How to negotiate continuing to work remotely?

#188

Post by baby »

Google changed position because enough employees threatened to quit if they were forced to go back to work. I assure you that Google is not the only company in this position.

By the way, I’ve started asking recruiters on Linkedin if the role they are reaching out to me for is remote. I’m not looking for a job but I bet if enough people start doing that there’ll be a shift :)

Re: Ask HN: How to negotiate continuing to work remotely?

#189

Post by petecooper »

barrkel wrote: post #134
pfp wrote: post #56

Don't negotiate. Dictate. I'm not joking either. I tried negotiating this (pre-covid), only to get a "final offer" of a measly couple of remote days etc. Being on the spectrum, I took their word at face value, found another job that does 100% remote, and put in my resignation. Surprisingly that "absolutely final" position wasn't that final anymore, and they'd've rather had me remote than not at all. Had the new job n…

Well actually, what you did was negotiate, but with the leverage of a good BATNA. Having a good BATNA is what makes negotiation much easier and much more likely to be to your advantage. In things like a job negotiation, it's also evidence of objective market conditions - i.e. it's not just you being unreasonable.

>BATNA

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Best_alternative_to_a_negotiat...

Today I learned.

Re: Ask HN: How to negotiate continuing to work remotely?

#190

Post by benjaminwootton »

Mountain_Skies wrote: post #141
agogdog wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Surprisingly that "absolutely final" position wasn't that final anymore I've been in this position a couple times with pay raises... and to be honest once this happens the job is more or less dead for me anyway. To only pay me what I asked because I'm leaving absolutely obliterates my trust.

I never take counteroffers and make it clear at every job that I don't take them because in my view if they could have paid me more but didn't, they were stealing from me. If I presented a case for a raise and didn't get it, they were also lying to me about the inability to give me one. Why hang around at a company like that? If I'm valuable to the company, it's foolish try to save a few dollars because it'll just en…

“Stealing” from you is a very confrontational view of the situation.

In any negotiated situation, both sides can usually give a bit more until they reach their limit. Maybe the employee could offer an extra few hours of focussed work and the employer can offer an extra 5% salary. That’s where the negotiation lands.

That can flex on either side as leverage and options move, but it’s just business.

The alternative is to nail everyone to the wall in every negotiation but that doesn’t seem constructive long term.

Post reply on HN