81–90 of 290 posts
Playing devil's advocate: as a business/employer why would I continue to pay you your current first-world salary rather than find someone top-notch for 1/3 your salary in India, or any other English speaking country with a lower cost of living?
To play devil's advocate to your devil's advocate: why haven't you been doing this already for the past 5 years?
Don't negotiate. Dictate. I'm not joking either. I tried negotiating this (pre-covid), only to get a "final offer" of a measly couple of remote days etc. Being on the spectrum, I took their word at face value, found another job that does 100% remote, and put in my resignation. Surprisingly that "absolutely final" position wasn't that final anymore, and they'd've rather had me remote than not at all. Had the new job n…
I don't think that is why you made a suboptimal choice; I think that's why you incorrectly think you made a suboptimal choice.
They might regret losing you, but that doesn't mean that good things would have happened if you tried to apply leverage before.
The act of trying to force someone to do something, whether by (implied) threat, logic, emotional manipulation, or whatever, can mortally wound a relationship making getting a concession you want moot.
As you say, the new job was "a lot better substance-wise", so it's a good thing you didn't try to hold their feet to the fire.
Don't negotiate. Dictate. I'm not joking either. I tried negotiating this (pre-covid), only to get a "final offer" of a measly couple of remote days etc. Being on the spectrum, I took their word at face value, found another job that does 100% remote, and put in my resignation. Surprisingly that "absolutely final" position wasn't that final anymore, and they'd've rather had me remote than not at all. Had the new job n…
>Being on the spectrum I don't think that is why you made a suboptimal choice; I think that's why you incorrectly think you made a suboptimal choice. They might regret losing you, but that doesn't mean that good things would have happened if you tried to apply leverage before. The act of trying to force someone to do something, whether by (implied) threat, logic, emotional manipulation, or whatever, can mortally woun…
Apply to Elastic. Seriously. There’s a massive difference between working for a company that is remote first vs being one of a handful of special snowflakes. If you’re working for a company where remote work is a negotiation, I say it’s a good sign that you should seek greener pastures.
I'm about to move out before vaccination levels are high enough to enforce returning to the office. I have enough savings-cushion, I'd collect unemployment, and there are plenty of remote offers. I'm very stubborn on it, because to me it's very easy. Home vs Office is a very hot and polarized topic. It's easy enough to please both type of workers, at least in IT. If C-level management is incapable of compromising on…
Don't negotiate. Dictate. I'm not joking either. I tried negotiating this (pre-covid), only to get a "final offer" of a measly couple of remote days etc. Being on the spectrum, I took their word at face value, found another job that does 100% remote, and put in my resignation. Surprisingly that "absolutely final" position wasn't that final anymore, and they'd've rather had me remote than not at all. Had the new job n…
>Being on the spectrum I don't think that is why you made a suboptimal choice; I think that's why you incorrectly think you made a suboptimal choice. They might regret losing you, but that doesn't mean that good things would have happened if you tried to apply leverage before. The act of trying to force someone to do something, whether by (implied) threat, logic, emotional manipulation, or whatever, can mortally woun…
There's no reason for it, but ego, and emotionalism on both sides. Saying:
"I'm at a point where remote matters to me quite a bit, and I won't sacrifice pay for it. If you can't do it, I'll start applying with those who will, but I thought I owed you the honest truth."
It doesn't need to be emotionally driven. Just honest truth.
And I get that, as you say, bizarrely negative consequences can follow.
Me? I respect the truth. I can work with it. I want to hear it.
Many don't.
Yet, maybe this is an additional indicator of employer value, and potential toxicity?
Don't negotiate. Dictate. I'm not joking either. I tried negotiating this (pre-covid), only to get a "final offer" of a measly couple of remote days etc. Being on the spectrum, I took their word at face value, found another job that does 100% remote, and put in my resignation. Surprisingly that "absolutely final" position wasn't that final anymore, and they'd've rather had me remote than not at all. Had the new job n…
>Being on the spectrum I don't think that is why you made a suboptimal choice; I think that's why you incorrectly think you made a suboptimal choice. They might regret losing you, but that doesn't mean that good things would have happened if you tried to apply leverage before. The act of trying to force someone to do something, whether by (implied) threat, logic, emotional manipulation, or whatever, can mortally woun…
Precisely.
If you want to keep somebody on your team, you don't play this kind of game. These sort of zero-sum take-all-the-marbles negotiations are reserved for when you don't care at all about any future relationship (which should be very close to "never").