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Ask HN: How to negotiate continuing to work remotely?

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Re: Ask HN: How to negotiate continuing to work remotely?

#21

Post by daniellarusso »

codingdave wrote: post #4
twobitshifter wrote: post #2

I would like to know as well. Depending on the size of the company it may be easier to get special treatment. We’ve heard from top-down that we need to be back in the office and there’s been no special treatment given other than some allusions to a hybrid workweek compromise. The only way I think it would be possible at a large company would be to engage in some sort of wfh soft-strike collectively. With enough emplo…

> This is of course something dangerous to even discuss if you value your job. If you cannot even talk about your work environment, that must be quite the dystopian workplace. Most decent places I've worked, that is one of the most common topics when talking to your boss. Maybe those talks don't go anywhere, but if it is a taboo topic, it might be better to work elsewhere.

I think parent meant coordinating a labor strike, as far as dangerous topics of work discussion.

Re: Ask HN: How to negotiate continuing to work remotely?

#22

Post by WrtCdEvrydy »

aaronax wrote: post #19
WrtCdEvrydy wrote: post #6

"Since we're not requiring vaccinations, will the company be paying a 5 million dollar life insurance policy for my family as beneficiaries? I'm fine dying but I like to put a price on my own life" This is what I would say if I worked at a place which actually wanted people to come back to the office.

Do you carry a normal $5,000,000 life insurance policy?

We carry a standard 2x Yearly Pay Rate but it's capped at 100k.

Re: Ask HN: How to negotiate continuing to work remotely?

#23

Post by WrtCdEvrydy »

chrisseaton wrote: post #16
WrtCdEvrydy wrote: post #6

"Since we're not requiring vaccinations, will the company be paying a 5 million dollar life insurance policy for my family as beneficiaries? I'm fine dying but I like to put a price on my own life" This is what I would say if I worked at a place which actually wanted people to come back to the office.

> will the company be paying a 5 million dollar life insurance policy for my family as beneficiaries? Isn't life insurance a standard part of employment benefits? So, yes, they will be.

Usually, but that's usually a 2x current yearly pay rate and it's usually capped at 100k.

A 5 million dollar life insurance is a "key person" policy... if it's some important to the business that I be on site during a health emergency, they can keep half of the max 10 million and my family can get the rest.

Re: Ask HN: How to negotiate continuing to work remotely?

#24

Post by perlgeek »

Key to a negotiation is understanding what the other party wants (and what you want, of course).

WHY do they want you to work on premise? Wanting your presence is just a means to an end. There could be many reasons, like:

* They think it's easier to control how much somebody works if it's on premise

* it might be easier to manage

* it might be inertia

* they think it's more efficient

* somebody is trying to exert control, or demonstrate to a higher-up that they can do so

... and so on. You should first try to understand where they are coming from, and then you can try to argue your case, framing it in a way that they can get most of their underlying motivation.

Also, it helps to know in advance what you are willing to give up and what not (are you willing to walk away if you don't reach an agreement? what compromises would be acceptable to you?)

Re: Ask HN: How to negotiate continuing to work remotely?

#26

Post by adamnemecek »

rizpanjwani wrote: post #25

Playing devil's advocate: as a business/employer why would I continue to pay you your current first-world salary rather than find someone top-notch for 1/3 your salary in India, or any other English speaking country with a lower cost of living?

Time zone differences are bad.

Re: Ask HN: How to negotiate continuing to work remotely?

#27

Post by vb6sp6 »

I work for a very small company so when they start talking about coming back I give them some form of "not gonna happen from me" in a joking and light-hearted manner.

I've done this specifically to "anchor" my position. I've heard that others are saying "2-3 days at home" which seems foolish since that will be instantly whittled down to 2 days, and then fridays only, and then fridays only unless there is a big project (and there will always be a big project).

If we ever get to a serious "why aren't you coming back" then we can discuss the reasons:

1. I dont like the commute and you dont like it when i am late

2. I'm working more hours since I'm not taking an hour lunch each day. I'm also not watching the clock trying to beat the evening rush. (you should have the numbers to back this up)

3. "butts in seats" is dumb. You aren't dumb and I'm not done. We accomplished everything we set out to do in the last year with 0 butts in seat

4. The office has a ton of non-work related distractions. While I do enjoy the social aspects, I have a distraction free environment here which has allowed me to focus on some larger tasks such as completing project x and y.

5. Customers are never at our site. The only visitors we have are paper salesmen and dental hygienists (see #4) and i am tired of telling them, politely, to go fuck themselves

Unfortunately if they make employment conditional on in office you have to be willing to walk away. They might counter but you should be ready to leave if it gets to this point.

Good Luck

Re: Ask HN: How to negotiate continuing to work remotely?

#28

Post by chrisseaton »

WrtCdEvrydy wrote: post #23
chrisseaton wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> will the company be paying a 5 million dollar life insurance policy for my family as beneficiaries? Isn't life insurance a standard part of employment benefits? So, yes, they will be.

Usually, but that's usually a 2x current yearly pay rate and it's usually capped at 100k. A 5 million dollar life insurance is a "key person" policy... if it's some important to the business that I be on site during a health emergency, they can keep half of the max 10 million and my family can get the rest.

> it's usually capped at 100k

That's a pretty crappy life insurance policy. I wouldn't want my wife having to recreate an independent life on a runway of just 100k.

I'm not a big shot, but I'm set up so that if I die my wife won't have to worry about work for a very long time. These policies probably aren't as expensive as you think they are.

Re: Ask HN: How to negotiate continuing to work remotely?

#29

Post by [deleted] »

WrtCdEvrydy wrote: post #6

"Since we're not requiring vaccinations, will the company be paying a 5 million dollar life insurance policy for my family as beneficiaries? I'm fine dying but I like to put a price on my own life" This is what I would say if I worked at a place which actually wanted people to come back to the office.

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: How to negotiate continuing to work remotely?

#30

Post by NKosmatos »

All these months that you’ve been working remotely has your efficiency/amount of work/evaluation remained the same? If yes then you can use this as a valid and measurable point for your discussion with your manager. Try to collect actual data (emails, messages, deadlines, quality...) clearly showing that while you were WFH. As others have suggested, have a plan B during the discussion/negotiations. Can you offer a few days every month? Are you willing to loose any benefits or raises for a couple of years? What about equipment? You have to give something to the “stubborn” employers that don’t see the benefits of remote working, especially for specific jobs that can be performed from a computer anywhere on earth :-) Hope you succeed!
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