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Ask HN: How to negotiate continuing to work remotely?

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Re: Ask HN: How to negotiate continuing to work remotely?

#131

Post by jollybean »

pfp wrote: post #56

Don't negotiate. Dictate. I'm not joking either. I tried negotiating this (pre-covid), only to get a "final offer" of a measly couple of remote days etc. Being on the spectrum, I took their word at face value, found another job that does 100% remote, and put in my resignation. Surprisingly that "absolutely final" position wasn't that final anymore, and they'd've rather had me remote than not at all. Had the new job n…

If you take this advice, remember that there's a good chance you'll be fired, so there's that.

Also - it's wrong and arrogant to make the claim that there is universal disdain for office work. You can have your view, that's fine, but don't assume that it's consistent with the views of others.

Re: Ask HN: How to negotiate continuing to work remotely?

#132

Post by flukus »

bkuehl wrote: post #121
ineptech wrote: post #61

I manage people and have some advice. Start with, "I'd like to be converted to full remote, what's the process for that?" The answer is probably "I don't know but I don't think it would fly." Insist that your manager ask up the chain for an official answer. If the answer is "nope", next say: "I'm not comfortable returning to the office for health reasons. Will I be fired?" This is two-pronged: a) it introduces privat…

^^ Listen to this! As a manager and developer as well, I 100% agree. If you are a great worker and your manager isn't incompetent, they will fight for you up the chain. But don't approach it abrasively at first. That just sets the wrong tone for everyone. On the other hand, if a good manager doesn't care if you quit, it also says a lot. There are developers I was so relieved just quit. It wasn't worth it keeping them…

This also sends a signal though, if other employees know you let the guy go because remote wasn't an option then they're going to just assume their is no negotiation and quit.

Although some may see the extra leverage they now have because losing multiple people at once is far worse than losing a single person.

Re: Ask HN: How to negotiate continuing to work remotely?

#133

Post by bigwavedave »

snow_mac wrote: post #129
throwawayboise wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You normally can't collect unemployment if you quit.

You can if they fire you though...

> You can if they fire you though...

As far as I know, that's if you're fired without cause. Who do you think the state contacts to find out why you were let go? Be careful going down that route.

Re: Ask HN: How to negotiate continuing to work remotely?

#134

Post by barrkel »

pfp wrote: post #56

Don't negotiate. Dictate. I'm not joking either. I tried negotiating this (pre-covid), only to get a "final offer" of a measly couple of remote days etc. Being on the spectrum, I took their word at face value, found another job that does 100% remote, and put in my resignation. Surprisingly that "absolutely final" position wasn't that final anymore, and they'd've rather had me remote than not at all. Had the new job n…

Well actually, what you did was negotiate, but with the leverage of a good BATNA. Having a good BATNA is what makes negotiation much easier and much more likely to be to your advantage. In things like a job negotiation, it's also evidence of objective market conditions - i.e. it's not just you being unreasonable.

Re: Ask HN: How to negotiate continuing to work remotely?

#135

Post by barrkel »

agogdog wrote: post #123
pfp wrote: post #56

Don't negotiate. Dictate. I'm not joking either. I tried negotiating this (pre-covid), only to get a "final offer" of a measly couple of remote days etc. Being on the spectrum, I took their word at face value, found another job that does 100% remote, and put in my resignation. Surprisingly that "absolutely final" position wasn't that final anymore, and they'd've rather had me remote than not at all. Had the new job n…

>Surprisingly that "absolutely final" position wasn't that final anymore I've been in this position a couple times with pay raises... and to be honest once this happens the job is more or less dead for me anyway. To only pay me what I asked because I'm leaving absolutely obliterates my trust.

There's a way to play it in a less antagonistic fashion.

If you really want to stay, you can still look for another offer with the conditions you want, and use it to point out that the company is being unreasonable in its demands and that market conditions for labour have shifted, and actually they are putting themselves in a bad position trying to enforce their preferences against prevailing conditions.

(IMO most people shouldn't go more than a few years without checking the job market and getting an offer, even without intent to switch jobs.)

Re: Ask HN: How to negotiate continuing to work remotely?

#137

Post by proc0 »

pfp wrote: post #56

Don't negotiate. Dictate. I'm not joking either. I tried negotiating this (pre-covid), only to get a "final offer" of a measly couple of remote days etc. Being on the spectrum, I took their word at face value, found another job that does 100% remote, and put in my resignation. Surprisingly that "absolutely final" position wasn't that final anymore, and they'd've rather had me remote than not at all. Had the new job n…

Not saying you made the wrong choice, but I would have never taken the counter offer, and really to be in a dictating position, I would have had the job offer ready before any talk that would result in not getting what I want. If a company needs an incentive to keep you, chances are they might revisit their incentives when you least expect it and let you go at a later date.

Re: Ask HN: How to negotiate continuing to work remotely?

#139

Post by [deleted] »

whatshisface wrote: post #92
donw wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The act of trying to force someone to do something, whether by (implied) threat, logic, emotional manipulation, or whatever, can mortally wound a relationship making getting a concession you want moot. Precisely. If you want to keep somebody on your team, you don't play this kind of game. These sort of zero-sum take-all-the-marbles negotiations are reserved for when you don't care at all about any future relationsh…

It's a dangerous subject, but it only takes a slight change in wording to turn a take-all-the-marbles conflict into a positive example of you offering them an opportunity. See, "Give me remote or I walk." Versus, "I found this great role at this other company, and the work they do satisfies me on a deep personal level. However, it's not remote, and if you let me stay remote, my present position would be way better. W…

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