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Lasting immunity found after recovery from Covid-19

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Re: Lasting immunity found after recovery from Covid-19

#191
post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Liberty. It's a terrible a precedent to restrict freedom of movement on a forced personal health decision. It's basically subverting your body to the state.

I am going to assume you are American by the reference to liberty. Every US immigrant is /already/ required to have eight different vaccinations and a negative TB test. They quite literally take your blood before you can become a resident. https://www.uscis.gov/tools/designated-civil-surgeons/vaccin...

There is no universal right to immigrate to the US, or anywhere else generally, so immigrants can be subject to whatever requirements the local govt decides at any given time. The discussion here was about a supposed "free travel" zone where citizens of member countries are giving up much of their autonomy in return for travel and trade freedoms.

But this kind of arguments are precisely the point when it comes to concern about precedents. It becomes less of a barrier to adding new rules just because the law already has vaguely similar rules.

Re: Lasting immunity found after recovery from Covid-19

#192
post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What should be the european way? I ask this as I understand your concern about politics forcing personal decisions, yet I am not finding a pragmatic workable solution to the current crisis.

The European way should be to treat the EU as one country and stop restricting movement. We've had Schengen for a long time, which meant no border checks whatsoever on most borders (we were driving through without even stopping or slowing down most of the time). With this vaccine passport, Schengen is pretty much history and that removes one of the main liberties the EU was offering.

Schengen has been deteriorating for a long time. Denmark has totally ignored it and has road checks at the border for more than 5 years now and other nations have done similar (although to a less extreme extent).

Re: Lasting immunity found after recovery from Covid-19

#193
post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am going to assume you are American by the reference to liberty. Every US immigrant is /already/ required to have eight different vaccinations and a negative TB test. They quite literally take your blood before you can become a resident. https://www.uscis.gov/tools/designated-civil-surgeons/vaccin...

Yes, but as I understand it, the EU purports to be a proponent of human rights as well. Immigration to the U.S. is of course, a regulated activity. They can make you take a physical, pay a fee, inspect your background, call your mom and make sure you're a good person, etc, before accepting you as an immigrant. Sure. There's no limits to that, because there's no U.S. Constitutional protection for non-U.S. citizens and…

> There's no limits to that, because there's no U.S. Constitutional protection for non-U.S. citizens

The fourteenth amendment plainly says “people” not citizens. There are others, but this is the most obvious one.

> nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;

Re: Lasting immunity found after recovery from Covid-19

#194

Seems to be on-par with antibody persistence (6 months) offered after second dose of mRNA-1273 vaccine[1]. US CDC seems to suggest vaccine to those who had COVID immediately after recovery[2]. Where as news sources claim WHO suggests 6 months after recovery[3]. [1] https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2103916 [2] https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/faq.html [3] https://theprint.in/health/i-had-co…

Wow. Thank you for sharing #2.

"Yes, you should be vaccinated regardless of whether you already had COVID-19. That’s because experts do not yet know how long you are protected from getting sick again after recovering from COVID-19."

This is downright false. Someone should seriously sue the CDC. I don't understand how they can get away with this anti science, anti math, illogerate bullsh*t. We know far more about the long term protective effects from recovering than we do from the vaccine (1 in 1,000 long term reinfection rate so far—https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.03.06.21253051v...).

I would send a pull request but the CDC is not on Git. What a sorry excuse for an organization they are.

Re: Lasting immunity found after recovery from Covid-19

#195
post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not deadly to the vaccinated. That's the whole point of the vaccines. Or are you arguing that the vaccines don't work?

> If those 100 people are still worried about that, they can choose to keep themselves locked away forever. You must be trolling, no way you're so self-centered. "I like to drive with 200km/h through cities, those who don't like it or are scared of my driving can stay home" "I like to take my aggressive pitbull for a walk without a leash, if you don't like it you can stay home" "I like to play with guns, if you don't…

Nice army of straw men. You're trying to redefine literally existing in public as recklessness.

Self-centered? The people demanding the nonvaccinated cease existing in society because of their fears are the selfish ones. I'm saying nothing about anyone else's choices or activities whatsoever. Restricting someone else's behavior and bodily autonomy is the selfish act.

100 people forcibly removing 1 person from society who has done nothing wrong? That's a concentration camp. This is mob rule, you're just okay with it because you're part of the mob.

Re: Lasting immunity found after recovery from Covid-19

#196

SINGAPORE - The Republic has seen 26 cases of Covid-19 reinfection as Monday (May 10), Health Minister Gan Kim Yong said in a ministerial statement in Parliament on Tuesday. Such reinfections are known to be possible in both overseas and local cases, he noted, but it is still unclear why they occur. The minister said investigations are ongoing to determine if reinfections are due to a general waning of immunity level…

Out of ~61,000 cases in Singapore, that would be a reinfection rate of 1 in 2,500. And of those, I'd bet all are mild cases.

https://ourworldindata.org/explorers/coronavirus-data-explor...

Re: Lasting immunity found after recovery from Covid-19

#197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with your points, but I'd really really like to avoid giving the impression of... glee? "Look at those unwashed unvaccinated Trump supporters, so good they'll be forced to do things our ways now!". I'm not saying you're doing it, I'm just piggybacking on your comment. I'm pretty much a high-modernist when it comes to vaccines - I think that having governments build sewage and create vaccines go into the same…

This is getting stupid, if it wasn't already. Requiring vaccination is "curtailing liberties". Restricting movement due not being vaccinated is "curtailing liberties". No shit. One can either be part of society or not. Society has minimum requirements if one wants to participate. One is free—exercise their liberty—to live as a hermit if they don't want to do either of these things. That's the price of admission of ge…

But it's such a nonsense strategy, there is no way that this will provide eradication, covid is just too virulent and not deadly enough, it will remain in small pockets, remember there will be many countries that won't be able to afford this on going pharmaceutical tax. If it does provide protection vaccinate the at risk and be done.

Re: Lasting immunity found after recovery from Covid-19

#198
post #190
post #141

Also interesting: “Is One Vaccine Dose Enough After COVID-19 Infection?” > A small, NIH-supported study, published as a pre-print on medRxiv, offers some early data on this important question [1]. The findings show that immune response to the first vaccine dose in a person who’s already had COVID-19 is equal to, or in some cases better, than the response to the second dose in a person who hasn’t had COVID-19. While m…

It's moronic to get the vaccine if you've recovered from COVID. The reinfection rate is 1 in 1,000, and even then it's all mild cases. ( https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.03.06.21253051v... )

Here's a counterpoint by an immunologist:

https://theconversation.com/why-you-should-get-a-covid-19-va...

Re: Lasting immunity found after recovery from Covid-19

#199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have any other examples other than saying very early that people needn't mask up and then reversing on that point?

* “We don’t need to ban travelers from China, that’s absurd and xenophobic!” * “2 weeks to slow the spread, then this will all be over”

Nobody in the infectious medicine field actually said it will be over in 2 weeks and the travel ban proposal under trump was xenophobic theater because it made a point of banning only some travel after we had community spread and didn't even stop a lot of travel after that. It was the worst of both worlds.

Re: Lasting immunity found after recovery from Covid-19

#200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thus limiting those that are not vaccinated and making it difficult to move freely for them. The travel pass is a horrible idea, that effectively will force many to be vaccinated. That should not be the european way.

> Thus limiting those that are not vaccinated and making it difficult to move freely for them. > ... that effectively will force many to be vaccinated. Yup, that’s the point. No man is an island. You already can’t walk around doing literally whatever you want just because it’s your body you’re doing it with. You depend on other people, and other people depend on you (or at least can’t avoid intermingling with you, es…

> Yup, that’s the point.

I don't understand.

If we know that people who recovered from covid are effectively as if they were vaccinated, why do they have to wait until they have the privilege to be in the lucky age group to receive the vaccine before they can go visit a loved one they don't see for more than one year?

Are you assuming that everyone in the world is living in a privileged country where people as young as 30 can already access vaccines?

I read a lot from Americans complaining how bad their country was and all that, but hey, all my American coworkers got vaccinated and I can't visit my mom in Switzerland because she aged 68 just got her first shot yesterday. That's right, Switzerland not some third world country. Switzerland with all its pharma industry can't get the same vaccine production capacity and rollout throughput as your "utterly unorganized federal state that totally botched covid", as I often read Americans.

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