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Lasting immunity found after recovery from Covid-19

nih.gov

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Re: Lasting immunity found after recovery from Covid-19

#111

Post by spfzero »

lamontcg wrote: post #87
jandrewrogers wrote: post #15

This was completely expected, since this is the case with the other coronaviruses. People that contracted SARS-CoV-1 still have a strong immune response almost 20 years later.

What has been shown is that if you introduce the SARS-CoV-1 peptide ex vivo into cells drawn from the blood of survivors that there's a IFN-gamma response from T-cells. That shows that there's clearly some memory in the immune system, but it isn't like they did challenge testing with live SARS-CoV-1 virus to survivors to see if they got sick or not. And we now know that the presence of a T-cell immune reaction is not…

The parent is not saying exposure to Cov-1 provides long-term immunity to Cov-2. Why are you confusing this? It says exposureto Cov-2 provides long-term immunity to Cov-2, as you would expect.

Re: Lasting immunity found after recovery from Covid-19

#112

Post by macintux »

Izkata wrote: post #69
TameAntelope wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everything I've been reading about vaccine passports include some reference to having a positive COVID test more than X period of time in the past as an equivalent to a vaccine. That said, there are few (if any) reasons not to do both, so at least for now I'm okay even if we did only push for vaccines-as-validation.

> That said, there are few (if any) reasons not to do both If recovery grants equivalent immunity, there's not only no reason to get a vaccine, there's reason to not get any vaccine: However rare complications are from the vaccines, there's no reason to risk them.

The complications from the virus are nearly always going to be worse than vaccination. I’m failing to grasp your logic.

Edit: Ah, perhaps you mean for someone who has recovered. Given the reports that vaccination helps with those who are experiencing “long COVID”, plus the added protection, I’d eagerly get vaccinated even if I had recovered from infection.

Re: Lasting immunity found after recovery from Covid-19

#113

Post by benjaminwootton »

dnautics wrote: post #10
ianai wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The consensus I’m hearing from epidemiologists is the mRNA vaccines should offer better immunity than infection. So it would seem the 8 month for immunity after infection should be a lower bound for the vaccine effectiveness.

> The consensus I’m hearing from epidemiologists is the mRNA vaccines should offer better immunity than infection Serious question: How can we possibly know this? I'm all for vaccinations (I'm going in for my second shot this weekend), but I just worry about commentary backed by intuition that doesn't carry sufficient disclaiming.

Worse, it’s actually commentary backed by politics and virtue signalling to encourage people who have had COVID to still get vaccinated.

Re: Lasting immunity found after recovery from Covid-19

#114

Post by shalmanese »

Buttons840 wrote: post #74
jandrewrogers wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are several such studies, all trivially discoverable. Here is one published in Nature last year, where they specifically also studied cross reactivity of SARS-2003 immune response with SARS-2019: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-020-2550-z Asking for a citation for something so trivially discoverable is a weird flex.

A claim referencing unspecified sources on the internet is essentially unfalsifiable. How does anyone debunk such a claim? Do a Google search and start on page 1?

You could ask more politely by showing you did the bare minimum of independent research before asking for a citation.

'That's an interesting assertion but I couldn't find anything backing it up searching for "SARS immunity 20 years" or "long lasting SARS immunity", do you have a cite I could read?'

Even showing you've put in even the teensiest bit of effort makes people much more charitable about helping you.

Re: Lasting immunity found after recovery from Covid-19

#115

Post by tuwtuwtuwtuw »

michaelmrose wrote: post #109
tuwtuwtuwtuw wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Go to Google and search for "SARS-CoV-1 immunity". Is this not trivial?

The beginning of the thread where a citation was asked for and given is interesting. This continuing discussion on the matter is a tedious digression whichever side you are on.

Now you're part of the continuing discussion as well. Welcome!

Re: Lasting immunity found after recovery from Covid-19

#116

Post by sharken »

wilsynet wrote: post #42
bpodgursky wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As much as I'd like that to be true, I think it's impossible to separate that statement from the political pressure to motivate vaccination. ie, if the opposite was true — vaccination did not provide the same strength of immunity as infection — no epidemiologist would ever state this publicly. So I'll be happy if it's true, but this statement doesn't move my belief-meter one way or another.

Do you know why there’s political pressure to motivate vaccination? Because vaccines work.

Political pressure or rather information on the benefits of the vaccine is the best way to improve the situation for any country.

Where it goes wrong is if said country begins to deny participation in society, by for example requiring continuous testing for those who are not vaccinated. These measures in reality decreases your ability to participate.

Israel is one example where their Green Pass system denies you access if you dont have the green pass: https://corona.health.gov.il/en/directives/green-pass-info/

While Texas among other US states has the complete opposite approach: https://www.texastribune.org/2021/04/06/texas-greg-abbott-co...

And the EU is somewhere in the middle, though it does consider limiting free movement if you are not vaccinated. https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/IP_21_...

I much prefer the American approach, as the other approaches force the individual to be vaccinated.

Re: Lasting immunity found after recovery from Covid-19

#117

Post by lamontcg »

spfzero wrote: post #111
lamontcg wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What has been shown is that if you introduce the SARS-CoV-1 peptide ex vivo into cells drawn from the blood of survivors that there's a IFN-gamma response from T-cells. That shows that there's clearly some memory in the immune system, but it isn't like they did challenge testing with live SARS-CoV-1 virus to survivors to see if they got sick or not. And we now know that the presence of a T-cell immune reaction is not…

The parent is not saying exposure to Cov-1 provides long-term immunity to Cov-2. Why are you confusing this? It says exposureto Cov-2 provides long-term immunity to Cov-2, as you would expect.

The immediate parent comment is saying that ex vivo IFNgamma responses from T-cells in the blood to SARS1 is evidence of long term immunity to SARS1.

I'm using the example of the cross-reactive immune response from other human coronavirus to SARS2, and the lack of any protection conferred by that immune response towards prevention of disease or hospitalization to be a counter example to the idea that the ex vivo immune response is necessarily predictive of useful infection/disease/hospitalization prevention.

We can't say that the spike in IFN gamma correlates to disease protection 20 years later, there's a lot of dots to fill in.

There's a big difference between an immunologists definition of "immune response" and the public's definition of "survivor island" style bulletproof "immunity".

We know the body still recognizes SARS1 17 years later. We have no idea if that person would get infected if they had dinner with someone who had SARS1. They'd probably do better than an otherwise naive person, and i wouldn't bet against that, but a T-cell response in a dish in a lab, that isn't even neutralizing, is weak evidence of an immune response.

Re: Lasting immunity found after recovery from Covid-19

#118

Post by michaelmrose »

mssundaram wrote: post #59
seoaeu wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They've lost credibility because of a concerted effort to discredit them. An effort that was initiated specifically by people who didn't want to follow their broadly reasonable medical advice.

They did this themselves. Fauci, CDC and WHO constantly have gone back and forth between each other and themselves.

Do you have any other examples other than saying very early that people needn't mask up and then reversing on that point?

Re: Lasting immunity found after recovery from Covid-19

#119

Post by walterbell »

For those in the EU, the upcoming travel pass will cover three categories of people: vaccinated, PCR-tested negative, and recovered (i.e. positive antibody test of immunity), https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/news/all-your-questions-on-...

> For travellers who have recovered from the virus: date of the positive test result, an issuer of the certificate, date of issuance, validity date

The bureaucratic stumbling block will be agreement on antibody and T-cell testing definitions across country borders.

Re: Lasting immunity found after recovery from Covid-19

#120

Post by lamontcg »

jandrewrogers wrote: post #99
lamontcg wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What has been shown is that if you introduce the SARS-CoV-1 peptide ex vivo into cells drawn from the blood of survivors that there's a IFN-gamma response from T-cells. That shows that there's clearly some memory in the immune system, but it isn't like they did challenge testing with live SARS-CoV-1 virus to survivors to see if they got sick or not. And we now know that the presence of a T-cell immune reaction is not…

Yeah, I don’t think anyone is modeling this as something that can be eradicated, even ignoring the zoonotic aspects. The assumption, which seems quite reasonable from my perspective, is that it will become background noise long term. Never eliminated but with greatly reduced virulence.

Good article on that here:

https://science.sciencemag.org/content/371/6530/741

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