Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Ask HN: How to negotiate continuing to work remotely?

news.ycombinator.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

121–130 of 290 posts

Re: Ask HN: How to negotiate continuing to work remotely?

#121

Post by bkuehl »

ineptech wrote: post #61

I manage people and have some advice. Start with, "I'd like to be converted to full remote, what's the process for that?" The answer is probably "I don't know but I don't think it would fly." Insist that your manager ask up the chain for an official answer. If the answer is "nope", next say: "I'm not comfortable returning to the office for health reasons. Will I be fired?" This is two-pronged: a) it introduces privat…

^^ Listen to this! As a manager and developer as well, I 100% agree. If you are a great worker and your manager isn't incompetent, they will fight for you up the chain. But don't approach it abrasively at first. That just sets the wrong tone for everyone.

On the other hand, if a good manager doesn't care if you quit, it also says a lot. There are developers I was so relieved just quit. It wasn't worth it keeping them.

Re: Ask HN: How to negotiate continuing to work remotely?

#122

Post by ykevinator3 »

bigyikes wrote: post #99
whatshisface wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a dangerous subject, but it only takes a slight change in wording to turn a take-all-the-marbles conflict into a positive example of you offering them an opportunity. See, "Give me remote or I walk." Versus, "I found this great role at this other company, and the work they do satisfies me on a deep personal level. However, it's not remote, and if you let me stay remote, my present position would be way better. W…

Exactly. Being assertive and firmly negotiating doesn’t mean you have to be a jerk. Just the opposite, actually: if you’re being a jerk, you’re probably not not negotiating well.

Only if you're truly willing to lose your job, in which case you hold all the cards, and if not you gotta go back to the office.

Re: Ask HN: How to negotiate continuing to work remotely?

#123

Post by agogdog »

pfp wrote: post #56

Don't negotiate. Dictate. I'm not joking either. I tried negotiating this (pre-covid), only to get a "final offer" of a measly couple of remote days etc. Being on the spectrum, I took their word at face value, found another job that does 100% remote, and put in my resignation. Surprisingly that "absolutely final" position wasn't that final anymore, and they'd've rather had me remote than not at all. Had the new job n…

>Surprisingly that "absolutely final" position wasn't that final anymore

I've been in this position a couple times with pay raises... and to be honest once this happens the job is more or less dead for me anyway.

To only pay me what I asked because I'm leaving absolutely obliterates my trust.

Re: Ask HN: How to negotiate continuing to work remotely?

#124

Post by mathattack »

pfp wrote: post #56

Don't negotiate. Dictate. I'm not joking either. I tried negotiating this (pre-covid), only to get a "final offer" of a measly couple of remote days etc. Being on the spectrum, I took their word at face value, found another job that does 100% remote, and put in my resignation. Surprisingly that "absolutely final" position wasn't that final anymore, and they'd've rather had me remote than not at all. Had the new job n…

This is exactly true. Have the offer in hand and that will give you flexibility.

Re: Ask HN: How to negotiate continuing to work remotely?

#125

Post by hammock »

whatshisface wrote: post #92
donw wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The act of trying to force someone to do something, whether by (implied) threat, logic, emotional manipulation, or whatever, can mortally wound a relationship making getting a concession you want moot. Precisely. If you want to keep somebody on your team, you don't play this kind of game. These sort of zero-sum take-all-the-marbles negotiations are reserved for when you don't care at all about any future relationsh…

It's a dangerous subject, but it only takes a slight change in wording to turn a take-all-the-marbles conflict into a positive example of you offering them an opportunity. See, "Give me remote or I walk." Versus, "I found this great role at this other company, and the work they do satisfies me on a deep personal level. However, it's not remote, and if you let me stay remote, my present position would be way better. W…

One is an ultimatum/threat, and the other is simply expressing facts/position as part of a negotiation (it also reserves your right to act however you choose, and does not immediately put the relationship in jeopardy). The former is not advisable, ever.

I recommend everyone read Getting to Yes.

Re: Ask HN: How to negotiate continuing to work remotely?

#126

Post by snow_mac »

caseybettle wrote: post #93

I said I am moving to another city do you want me to try remote working or not? Yes. Within 3 months my productivity rose 5x, I received a large raise. Who knew not working in the equivalent of a hog barn (yes I have debugged code in a literal hog barn, one very thin door from the action) would raise your efficiency?

The trouble with that, is that if you try that, it's a prefect reason for them to get rid of you. Oh they're moving! Perfect, lets fire their ass and hire somebody new!!!!!!!!

Re: Ask HN: How to negotiate continuing to work remotely?

#127

Post by jagger27 »

throwaway0a5e wrote: post #112
heavyset_go wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The median commute time results in spending almost 10 days commuting a year.

Considering the kind of people I'd have to live amongst if I lived near the jobs 20 days is a small price to pay for freedom and sanity.

What “kind of people”?

Re: Ask HN: How to negotiate continuing to work remotely?

#128

Post by snow_mac »

rizpanjwani wrote: post #25

Playing devil's advocate: as a business/employer why would I continue to pay you your current first-world salary rather than find someone top-notch for 1/3 your salary in India, or any other English speaking country with a lower cost of living?

Go right ahead. I double dog dare you infact. Then in 5 years, when your product can't scale, you're being audited for security issues or your customers leave because the quality is now a third of what it once was; then you'll be in a lot worse shape then keeping a couple of people around for 3x the price.

Re: Ask HN: How to negotiate continuing to work remotely?

#129

Post by snow_mac »

throwawayboise wrote: post #86
the_gipsy wrote: post #45

I'm about to move out before vaccination levels are high enough to enforce returning to the office. I have enough savings-cushion, I'd collect unemployment, and there are plenty of remote offers. I'm very stubborn on it, because to me it's very easy. Home vs Office is a very hot and polarized topic. It's easy enough to please both type of workers, at least in IT. If C-level management is incapable of compromising on…

You normally can't collect unemployment if you quit.

You can if they fire you though...

Re: Ask HN: How to negotiate continuing to work remotely?

#130

Post by bradleyjg »

CardenB wrote: post #55
perlgeek wrote: post #24

Key to a negotiation is understanding what the other party wants (and what you want, of course). WHY do they want you to work on premise? Wanting your presence is just a means to an end. There could be many reasons, like: * They think it's easier to control how much somebody works if it's on premise * it might be easier to manage * it might be inertia * they think it's more efficient * somebody is trying to exert con…

I think this is a significant part of the problem that has prompted the question. It would be really helpful to have some insight into what is driving the move back to the office from people on HN.

You aren’t going to get that if people that want to believe there are no downsides to companies from wfh, and so do believe it, downvote everyone that disagrees. That’s how you get a bubble and a poor model of the world.
Post reply on HN