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Ask HN: How to negotiate continuing to work remotely?

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Re: Ask HN: How to negotiate continuing to work remotely?

#111

Post by hparadiz »

o-__-o wrote: post #36
twobitshifter wrote: post #2

I would like to know as well. Depending on the size of the company it may be easier to get special treatment. We’ve heard from top-down that we need to be back in the office and there’s been no special treatment given other than some allusions to a hybrid workweek compromise. The only way I think it would be possible at a large company would be to engage in some sort of wfh soft-strike collectively. With enough emplo…

It’s almost like JP Morgan has a vested interest in the success of commercial real estate. HMMMMMMM

Sales and finance attracts extroverts. They are likely in favor of returning to the office like all the extroverts at my work currently are. They did company lunch today in person. All vaxed though.

Re: Ask HN: How to negotiate continuing to work remotely?

#112

Post by throwaway0a5e »

heavyset_go wrote: post #107
brianwawok wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean you literally picked the longest commute average in the country. My current commute is 8 minutes, hard to even get a podcast fired up.

The median commute time results in spending almost 10 days commuting a year.

Considering the kind of people I'd have to live amongst if I lived near the jobs 20 days is a small price to pay for freedom and sanity.

Re: Ask HN: How to negotiate continuing to work remotely?

#113

Post by inetknght »

throwaway0a5e wrote: post #112
heavyset_go wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The median commute time results in spending almost 10 days commuting a year.

Considering the kind of people I'd have to live amongst if I lived near the jobs 20 days is a small price to pay for freedom and sanity.

Why pay that when you can work remote instead?

Re: Ask HN: How to negotiate continuing to work remotely?

#114

Post by Buttons840 »

Lots of good advice here. But also remember there are good books on negotiation, business dealings, communication, etc.

I recommend a book on negotiation called "Never Split the Difference". It's written by a former FBI hostage negotiator, it's filled with interesting stories and good advice.

Some negotiation books seem like a "bag of tricks" which only work if the other person doesn't know the tricks, not this book, this book is filled with advice that would work even if both parties are using the negotiation techniques described in the book.

Re: Ask HN: How to negotiate continuing to work remotely?

#115

Post by edderly »

Decide who you're negotiating with. Is it your manager or is it the company or organization? There could be differences in opinion depending on who you ask. Do not bother talking to HR.

Ask for feedback on your performance while working remotely. Also you can provide evidence that you are working & performing well.

Clearly you want to still work for this company, point that out.

Ask yourself what your career path is at this company, is there a difference between your expectations at this place and theirs? Will this be affected by your presence in the office?

Do not put salary and benefits discussions on the table yourself, leave that up to the company.

Re: Ask HN: How to negotiate continuing to work remotely?

#116

Post by zip1234 »

chrisseaton wrote: post #28
WrtCdEvrydy wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Usually, but that's usually a 2x current yearly pay rate and it's usually capped at 100k. A 5 million dollar life insurance is a "key person" policy... if it's some important to the business that I be on site during a health emergency, they can keep half of the max 10 million and my family can get the rest.

> it's usually capped at 100k That's a pretty crappy life insurance policy. I wouldn't want my wife having to recreate an independent life on a runway of just 100k. I'm not a big shot, but I'm set up so that if I die my wife won't have to worry about work for a very long time. These policies probably aren't as expensive as you think they are.

The company provided life insurance policies are usually group policies that will cover people regardless of condition--which is why they are so low in value.

Re: Ask HN: How to negotiate continuing to work remotely?

#117

Post by Auracle »

Permit wrote: post #102
ineptech wrote: post #61

I manage people and have some advice. Start with, "I'd like to be converted to full remote, what's the process for that?" The answer is probably "I don't know but I don't think it would fly." Insist that your manager ask up the chain for an official answer. If the answer is "nope", next say: "I'm not comfortable returning to the office for health reasons. Will I be fired?" This is two-pronged: a) it introduces privat…

> a) it introduces private healthcare decisions, a legally fraught topic they do not want to deal with. Weaponizing (perhaps too aggressive a word) private health decisions feels weird to me. The OP didn't mention any health concerns, so I'm assuming you're suggesting he just hide behind fictitious ones? Your advice is probably useful and could potentially get him what he desires, but it still feels off to me. It fee…

It only makes sense to do so if you are wanting to stay working from home for now for actual health reasons, not just due to a long term preference.

Re: Ask HN: How to negotiate continuing to work remotely?

#118

Post by amrx431 »

dbenny wrote: post #54

CTO at Markforged here. If you can't work it out with your employer hit us up. We're hiring remote software engineers. We'll ship you a printer so you can dev from home. Good luck! Like a lot of other commenters have posted - you have options.

Hey dbenny, Just browsed the careers page and I saw few positions where I could be a good fit. Are there TZ restrictions for the remote positions?

Thanks.

Re: Ask HN: How to negotiate continuing to work remotely?

#119

Post by gnicholas »

ineptech wrote: post #61

I manage people and have some advice. Start with, "I'd like to be converted to full remote, what's the process for that?" The answer is probably "I don't know but I don't think it would fly." Insist that your manager ask up the chain for an official answer. If the answer is "nope", next say: "I'm not comfortable returning to the office for health reasons. Will I be fired?" This is two-pronged: a) it introduces privat…

> a) it introduces private healthcare decisions, a legally fraught topic they do not want to deal with. Is it legal to fire someone for refusing to return to the office despite health concerns? Probably, but no one knows for sure and your employer does not want to be the test case. (If they ask, "what health concerns?" remind them that's private. Don't invent a fictitious medically-fragile aunt.)

I used to be a lawyer (though was never a labor/employment lawyer) and am having a hard time coming up with reasons it would be illegal to fire someone who refuses to come into the office for unspecified medical reasons.

It seems like you've thought about this quite a bit — what would the reasoning be? Employees have lots of protections, some of them related to medical conditions. For example, employees can get access to FML under the appropriate circumstances. But my understanding (having claimed such benefits for my family when babies were born) is that some sort of proof is required to establish eligibility.

Are there other benefits or protections that would not require this? Or is there a 'protected class' designation that could be claimed? For the record, I have no dog in this fight — I work for myself and don't have employees, so this doesn't affect me personally. I'm just curious what the arguments are for employees who want to remain remote.

Re: Ask HN: How to negotiate continuing to work remotely?

#120

Post by throwaway95011 »

Began this negotiation with my employer a couple months ago for reasons unrelated to COVID (partner is taking on a job that requires relocation). Got pretty far, but was ultimately denied. Some things I learned in the process:

- Make it clear that work remote is a requirement for you

- Consider things that may make your manger's life easier, as they may need to argue up the chain on your behalf. Draw upon any positive performance reviews, performance metrics. Consider whether you'd be willing to fly in for one week per quarter. Point to any existing permanently remote coworkers as examples / precedents.

- Talk to as many people in your direct management chain as possible (without going around people of course).

- Be prepared to leave.

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