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Game developers sharing their salaries on Twitter

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201–210 of 566 posts

Re: Game developers sharing their salaries on Twitter

#201
Makes me sad as a polish game-developer, who decided never to work in my country again. I have 15+ years of experience, I've made games for ps2 and original xbox aside PCs, and until i've left the "national" gamedev industry, my salaries were (monthly) along these numbers: around 2005ish: 3d artist / junior - 600usd 3d artist / mid - 800usd around 2009ish: 3d artist / team lead: 1100usd 3d artist / senior / team lead 1200usd around 2012ish: 3d artist / senior / team lead / delegated to maintain and oversee a remote office in other side of the country - 1200usd + rent paid (around 300usd) 2014 decided to leave any employment, and started own company that freelance/outsource work - salary quadrupled (after taxes). Since then, I had a steady rose in hourly rates, so its not comparable to normal local gamedev salaries at any point. Its ok to love games and want to make games. Just dont be exploitable idiot, and working on AAA title that sells millions for 1000usd/month, while beign called mid, or lead for 2.5k usd/month for having responsibility of evaluating several other teammates work.

Re: Game developers sharing their salaries on Twitter

#202

Unfortunately this probably won't be changing any time soon. Similar to the movie industry in CA, execs see game developers as totally replaceable, because they kind of are. There are so many people who are extremely passionate about making games, that they will jump after any opportunity, even when they know it isn't paying what it should. The only thing that might bring about some kind of reform is a union or a cha…

One thing that I haven’t really seen mentioned is that the barrier for entry is high in a lot of video game development. Meaning, I can’t really take 3 of my friends and make the next GTA in my garage. Those type of games need developers, but also artists, writers, actors, etc.

They’re expensive, risky operations of which development is only a part of.

This is probably why it makes the most sense to treat developers as a commodity in the industry. The level at which the consumer interacts with the developer isn’t as high as say, a website.

Re: Game developers sharing their salaries on Twitter

#203
post #95

My standard advice to every graduate CS student is to stay the hell away from professional video game development. If you want to make games, turn it into a hobby instead.

I say the same about art and music to my nieces and nephews: when you make art, people will really appreciate it, but you won't earn much financial currency - you will earn a different kind of currency...a social currency, which you can exchange for other things, but not rent. So make art as a hobby or as a way to meet people, but not for money. The same applies to game development, which is art.

Eh. It depends on if you want to make art or be an artist. Artists make art. People who make art make art. But if you want to be an Artist you cant really do something else full time and do art on the side. Maybe at the start but eventually you have to be an Artist full time. Otherwise the other thing will take over.

To be fair I give people the same advice. Just that the people who want to Artists look at me like I'm insane because nothing I say would stop them from living that life. The people who just want to make some art realize that it's not that bad to get paid well in a career and do art on the side.

Re: Game developers sharing their salaries on Twitter

#204
post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The whole "do it for the love of the craft not money" is bullshit propaganda that only serves to keep labor costs low. The entities on top are large multi-billion dollar corporations who are running a business, just like any other industry. And this has been more and more apparent in recent years seeing just how anti-consumer the video games industry is getting. If a Google recruiter told me "take a low salary and wo…

This is ultimately a supply and demand issue. Google pays high salaries because they have to in order to hire the talent they want. Game devs apparently do not have to, because they are able to fill their roles for lower salaries. Don't pretend like all tech companies wouldn't love to lower dev salaries, they just can't because they wouldn't be able to hire. Game companies apparently have a meaningful differentiator,…

Well getting minimum wage at Wendy's is also a supply and demand issue, but that job isn't sold as "do it for the love of the fast food industry". Ultimately a large chunk of game developers do have the skillset to be able to get better pay and working conditions elsewhere. They like making games, sure, but the tiniest amount of collective action among workers in the industry could ensure that you get to do what you love and get paid for it.

Re: Game developers sharing their salaries on Twitter

#205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don’t get suckered by this argument, folks. It’s the start of an abusive relationship. Whatever your sector, you should expect to be paid for your time and your skill. No-one pulled this shit at my FAANG or global ISP gigs, despite the fact I love working on high scale infrastructure. There is no special magical wonderland industry that intrinsically bathes its staff in so much joy that you can lowball their pay and…

TBH a lot of people don't have that many choices. I mean if a dream company gives me an offer with a reasonable salary, I'd jump for it without hesitation. A lot of people are OK with median salary.

[deleted]

Re: Game developers sharing their salaries on Twitter

#206
post #163

Just to have a bit of a counter argument from me, a game developer who loves games and has worked in the US games industry for the majority of my 20 years career: If your argument is "You can make more at a FAANG company" - well yeah, you can. You don't work in gaming because you want to make the top salary. You work in gaming because you love games and you enjoy having all your coworkers also love games and being ab…

The whole "do it for the love of the craft not money" is bullshit propaganda that only serves to keep labor costs low. The entities on top are large multi-billion dollar corporations who are running a business, just like any other industry. And this has been more and more apparent in recent years seeing just how anti-consumer the video games industry is getting. If a Google recruiter told me "take a low salary and wo…

(Opinions are my own)

> The whole "do it for the love of the craft not money" is bullshit propaganda that only serves to keep labor costs low

If this is good or bad is up to interpretation but some people actually enjoy different work cultures. I just joined Google after a ~5 year career at various startups, 2 of them YC backed through Work at a Startup & Bookface.

Google's culture and the culture at startups I've worked at are extremely different. Even the scales of your work are entirely different.

One of my first projects at Google was a "minor" change that resulted in migrating a majority of our users code. This involved a high level design doc, another doc sent to a committee, and for me to actually write the code which involved a series of reviews from my TL. What was essentially a very complex "find and replace" operation took ~2 weeks and it consumed a large percent of my bandwidth so I was operating at ~10% speed on other tasks while this was happening. After this we were planning another "medium sized" project and we were talking about timelines. I was confused about why we don't "just do it" and it turns out this task was going to be taking years.

This is a very different pace to what you get at a startup. At a previous job I rewrote how our entire CI worked. I essentially setup a demo, had another coworker I liked working with look at it and raise concerns, I fixed them, and then I pulled the trigger and migrated us a few days later. This also involved switching us from BitBucket to a self hosted Gitlab (which I setup runners, backups, etc for in ~1 day). We essentially changed the entire way we did development over a week because I decided it was the way to go, one other coworker agreed, and I executed on it and made it happen.

Another time we had a client identify a bug in a build we were going to ship them last minute. This was a "we're going to drop you as a client if this doesn't work" thing. Me and the same coworker had to fix this in 2 weeks or the company was screwed. I found this out as soon as I signed on to slack when my coworker who had been up till 6AM talking to our contact at the other company filled me in. I told him to go to bed and I'd start working on a fix. 1AM rolls around and he wakes up and I'm still working on a fix and feel like I've made no progress. I talk to the coworker and say "We're not going to make it, we're screwed". He tells me to go to bed and he'd work on it assuring me we'll be fine. I wake up the next day and he calls me saying we're screwed and I told him to catch some sleep and he'd I'd work on it and we'll be fine. We trade off like that every day for ~2 weeks including weekends. We pull off a fix using some new tech I was working on and by using standards we were pushing for others to use (unit testing, TDD, my automated deployment pipeline, duct tape, etc). It was exhausting and we both worked like 100hr/week for that time period. The next week the client was pleased, management was like "take whatever time you need that was amazing", and we went on our merry way. I basically vegged out for a week and, whenever I did do work, it was stuff I wanted to clean up anyway due to being bored.

You'd never get what happens at Google to happen at small company (years for a speculative project that may/may not help), and you'd never get what happens at small startups to happen at Google. Is that bad? No. Different people want different things. Honestly, the most fun I've had working in my career were those 3 weeks and working with that coworker. I still talk to him every week to catch up and about how our lives are going (he just bought a house, I'm moving, etc).

Obviously no one wants to work 100hr weeks but I want to work with people who care about the company, what we're doing, where we're going, and who are incentivized to do so (significant stock allocations, etc). I've been lucky enough to find a team like that at Google and at a few of the startups I've worked.

In short: it's not "bullshit propaganda" if you enjoy working with people who care, lack of bureaucracy, management structure, and actually like what you're building.

Re: Game developers sharing their salaries on Twitter

#208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's also possible to work on games or game like software at FAANG, not crunch (although FAANG companies have plenty of other toxic qualities that can make them worse than a game job in subtle ways) and get paid a FAANG salary.

What are the toxic qualities that are unique to FAANG?

[deleted]

Re: Game developers sharing their salaries on Twitter

#209
post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You see this advice a lot, but it's never very specific. "Just negotiate better!" OK, great... how? Most of us have no leverage besides our willingness to walk away, and when the market is saturated with talent, it's usually fine for a company to just let you walk away. I bet for someone who happens to be the world's foremost expert in some niche skill the company needs, negotiating a higher comp is straightforward.…

The advice is to walk after "Company: We'll offer you $100K." and go to "Comparable companies". If there aren't any then you lied with point 1.

[deleted]

Re: Game developers sharing their salaries on Twitter

#210

I’m not from the US, but is 150k considered a bad salary?

It's about 50% above average for the country, but HN tends to have a very coastal crowd, in particular a lot of SV talent where average pay is much higher. Experienced people easily break $200k, at my (non-FAANG) company the entry level package for Bay Area devs is more than $150k.
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