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Game developers sharing their salaries on Twitter

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Re: Game developers sharing their salaries on Twitter

#171

Post by inopinatus »

socialist_coder wrote: post #150

Just to have a bit of a counter argument from me, a game developer who loves games and has worked in the US games industry for the majority of my 20 years career: If your argument is "You can make more at a FAANG company" - well yeah, you can. You don't work in gaming because you want to make the top salary. You work in gaming because you love games and you enjoy having all your coworkers also love games and being ab…

Don’t get suckered by this argument, folks. It’s the start of an abusive relationship. Whatever your sector, you should expect to be paid for your time and your skill. No-one pulled this shit at my FAANG or global ISP gigs, despite the fact I love working on high scale infrastructure. There is no special magical wonderland industry that intrinsically bathes its staff in so much joy that you can lowball their pay and it’s just fine.

Re: Game developers sharing their salaries on Twitter

#172

Post by dahfizz »

aidenn0 wrote: post #153
dahfizz wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only if you're uninsured. Any halfway decent health insurance plan has out of pocket maxes that a software engineer can easily cover. I'm general, QOL is going to be better in Europe if youre in a low income bracket because you get so much as a public service. But if you make real money, you're going to be better off in America.

I have never seen a health-care plan in the US with real out-of-pocket maxes. The fine-print is crazy on those clauses. We got burned by going to an ER while traveling, and while the ER bill was covered under out-of-pocket maxes, both doctors who saw our son in the ER were not employees of the ER, and so counted as neither in-network nor emergency room care. Basically 90% of the bill was not subject to the out-of-poc…

I have always had an option for a plan that has an explicit out of pocket max for out of network costs. Maybe that's not very common.

Re: Game developers sharing their salaries on Twitter

#173

Post by julienb_sea »

paxys wrote: post #163
socialist_coder wrote: post #150

Just to have a bit of a counter argument from me, a game developer who loves games and has worked in the US games industry for the majority of my 20 years career: If your argument is "You can make more at a FAANG company" - well yeah, you can. You don't work in gaming because you want to make the top salary. You work in gaming because you love games and you enjoy having all your coworkers also love games and being ab…

The whole "do it for the love of the craft not money" is bullshit propaganda that only serves to keep labor costs low. The entities on top are large multi-billion dollar corporations who are running a business, just like any other industry. And this has been more and more apparent in recent years seeing just how anti-consumer the video games industry is getting. If a Google recruiter told me "take a low salary and wo…

This is ultimately a supply and demand issue. Google pays high salaries because they have to in order to hire the talent they want. Game devs apparently do not have to, because they are able to fill their roles for lower salaries. Don't pretend like all tech companies wouldn't love to lower dev salaries, they just can't because they wouldn't be able to hire.

Game companies apparently have a meaningful differentiator, which is that working in a gaming context is something people actually value and are willing to give up potential compensation for.

Re: Game developers sharing their salaries on Twitter

#174

Post by creato »

paxys wrote: post #163
socialist_coder wrote: post #150

Just to have a bit of a counter argument from me, a game developer who loves games and has worked in the US games industry for the majority of my 20 years career: If your argument is "You can make more at a FAANG company" - well yeah, you can. You don't work in gaming because you want to make the top salary. You work in gaming because you love games and you enjoy having all your coworkers also love games and being ab…

The whole "do it for the love of the craft not money" is bullshit propaganda that only serves to keep labor costs low. The entities on top are large multi-billion dollar corporations who are running a business, just like any other industry. And this has been more and more apparent in recent years seeing just how anti-consumer the video games industry is getting. If a Google recruiter told me "take a low salary and wo…

I think you have the cause and effect reversed. If there were more competent software engineers out there available to be hired, you wouldn't have a choice but to accept that Google recruiter's offer.

There are so many people that want to work on games, and there are many positions where these people are capable of doing the job, that that is the situation in that industry.

There are a subset of game development positions that are just like FAANG: well paid, good working conditions, with high skill requirements. Just like FAANG is a subset of the software industry. As big as FAANG is, the median software developer is not that.

Re: Game developers sharing their salaries on Twitter

#175

Post by PragmaticPulp »

socialist_coder wrote: post #150

Just to have a bit of a counter argument from me, a game developer who loves games and has worked in the US games industry for the majority of my 20 years career: If your argument is "You can make more at a FAANG company" - well yeah, you can. You don't work in gaming because you want to make the top salary. You work in gaming because you love games and you enjoy having all your coworkers also love games and being ab…

Outside of HN, most senior engineers understand that they can relocate to an area with a FAANG office and earn more money. It's not a secret. Many choose not to pursue this option, despite knowing it exists.

And that's okay. The incessant drive to obtain FAANG employment and FAANG salaries at any cost is not common outside of internet forums like HN or Blind. For many people, there is more to life than chasing the highest paying careers.

FAANG is absolutely a great option for anyone who can make it work. Some FAANG companies are opening up more offices and even considering remote work, but for many of us who aren't willing to relocate our families to FAANG office cities, it's not really an option any more.

And of course, it's fine if someone willingly chooses to work a lower paying job to work on something they enjoy. We shouldn't criticize people for not seeking out the maximum salary they can find if they're actually happy with what they're doing.

Careers are not one-size-fits-all. It's fine to share options with other people, but let's not criticize people for choosing career paths that differ from our own personal priorities.

Re: Game developers sharing their salaries on Twitter

#176

Post by AlwaysRock »

mywittyname wrote: post #79
duxup wrote: post #25

What is the supply of labor like like when it comes to game development? It seems like there might be a huge number of folks who want to get into the game industry, but not as many jobs available? Could that have an impact on salaries? When I changed careers and attended a coding camp, there were a handful of very capable folks who had failed to get into the gaming industry noting how many other folks like them there…

Wanting to be a game developer and being a good game developer are pretty different things. I'm sure that first shipped game to appear on your resume greatly increases the frequency and salary of offers. Also game development requires a lot of disparate skill sets. Artists are pretty much always underpaid relative to the amount of time and effort they put into their craft. The money there is always going to be as a l…

Wanting to be a software developer and being a good software developer are pretty different things. However most good software developers make more money than good game developers.

Re: Game developers sharing their salaries on Twitter

#177

Post by hintymad »

Game development is arguably technically harder than typical CRUD-type of app development, even if one uses a game engine. I was wondering if it's simply a matter of supply and demand. So many great programmers want to work on games, hence driving down the salary in the industry.

Re: Game developers sharing their salaries on Twitter

#178

Post by PragmaticPulp »

paxys wrote: post #163
socialist_coder wrote: post #150

Just to have a bit of a counter argument from me, a game developer who loves games and has worked in the US games industry for the majority of my 20 years career: If your argument is "You can make more at a FAANG company" - well yeah, you can. You don't work in gaming because you want to make the top salary. You work in gaming because you love games and you enjoy having all your coworkers also love games and being ab…

The whole "do it for the love of the craft not money" is bullshit propaganda that only serves to keep labor costs low. The entities on top are large multi-billion dollar corporations who are running a business, just like any other industry. And this has been more and more apparent in recent years seeing just how anti-consumer the video games industry is getting. If a Google recruiter told me "take a low salary and wo…

Educating people on available options at different companies is crucial. Everyone should know what companies pay well and what is required to join them.

However, we need to stop shaming people for having different career priorities than our own, or assuming that people are only making these choices out of poor judgment. As the parent comment explained, some people really do prefer to engage in non-FAANG career paths for various reasons. For many, it's as simple as not being willing or able to relocate to a location with a FAANG office, as few FAANG companies offer remote positions even after COVID.

Re: Game developers sharing their salaries on Twitter

#179

Post by julienb_sea »

This is ultimately a supply and demand issue. Google pays high salaries because they have to in order to hire the talent they want. Game devs apparently do not have to, because they are able to fill their roles for lower salaries. Don't pretend like all tech companies wouldn't love to lower dev salaries, they just can't because they wouldn't be able to hire.

Game companies apparently have a meaningful differentiator, which is that working in a gaming context is something people actually value and are willing to give up potential compensation for. This seems especially true at the junior level, which depresses junior salaries relative to other tech companies.

Also, comparing compensation against US FAANG hiring is beyond insane. They pay ridiculous salaries due to the extremely limited and competitive market for hires that meet their caliber. This has driven up salaries, but should NOT be treated as an indicator for what "reasonable" pay looks like across the entire industry.

Re: Game developers sharing their salaries on Twitter

#180

Post by Keats »

gpm wrote: post #127
Raed667 wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hence my inability to compare a 150k$ offer in California to a 62k€ offer in Lyon.

I mean, completing my argument with those numbers 62k€ = 75k usd, 150 - 75 = 75. so assuming both numbers are before tax (and neglecting things like bonuses, benefits, equity, etc that you probably need to add into both numbers), there's your comparison. Now the question to you is "is Lyon worth 75k/year over California". That's not a question of compensation, that's just a question of how much you value the differen…

French always use before taxes numbers ("brut"). €62k is about 41k after taxes.
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