Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Game developers sharing their salaries on Twitter

axios.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

11–20 of 566 posts

Re: Game developers sharing their salaries on Twitter

#11

Post by amelius »

f430 wrote: post #2

What is it about game development field that makes it so labor intensive with consistent overtimes? I tried to make a simple FPS game and it was astounding how much work was involved. Took 6 month of learning Unreal and Unity and gave up with a functioning prototype. Took 4 months of back and forth with Steam to list my game. Even harder trying to make money off it. I'm just in awe of Roblox, Minecraft, Fall Guy and…

> It did make me change my stance on piracy. Somebody spent their sweat and blood bringing that game. We should pay for it what we can but won't be against emulation of retro ROMs.

I don't know about games, but in movies I don't care about the detail that CGI offers. Just give me a good story.

Re: Game developers sharing their salaries on Twitter

#12

Post by sldksk »

lend000 wrote: post #7
0xy wrote: post #4

It's really weird how this article starts by showing how through negotiation and job searching you can increase your salary, but bizarrely then talks about unions, which are known to depress wages for top performers (just look at teachers unions, where pay is totally disconnected from competence and performance). If you're a really good game developer, artist or animator then you should learn the skill of negotiation…

You're probably being downvoted because you mentioned unions in a negative light, but your points are factually correct. Unions have a place for protecting unskilled workers, but what happens in game development is quite unique, because these workers are in-demand software engineers who typically have better options working in a less glorified field.

Most unions in the US are in fact only made up of skilled workers. Your point is just wrong.

Re: Game developers sharing their salaries on Twitter

#13

Post by wcarss »

0xy wrote: post #4

It's really weird how this article starts by showing how through negotiation and job searching you can increase your salary, but bizarrely then talks about unions, which are known to depress wages for top performers (just look at teachers unions, where pay is totally disconnected from competence and performance). If you're a really good game developer, artist or animator then you should learn the skill of negotiation…

Unions can at the least increase the standard of pay for everyone other than those few top performers who also know how to negotiate well.

Having to adversarially game out every interaction just to thrive in the world, especially those interactions with entities that have a lot of power to make your life good or bad for a long time, is a serious burden to place on people, and unions can help to alleviate it.

I have also seen and read about the significant disparities in different demographic groups' (e.g. gender) willingness to do things like negotiate, and it can result in broad differences in outcomes.

(There's a lot of ways to work on that kind of issue, and I'm not necessarily trying to claim "unions" is the only or the best one, but they can help to mitigate problems of pay disparity.)

Re: Game developers sharing their salaries on Twitter

#14

Post by q_andrew »

Unfortunately this probably won't be changing any time soon. Similar to the movie industry in CA, execs see game developers as totally replaceable, because they kind of are. There are so many people who are extremely passionate about making games, that they will jump after any opportunity, even when they know it isn't paying what it should. The only thing that might bring about some kind of reform is a union or a change in US/CA/UK labor laws.

Re: Game developers sharing their salaries on Twitter

#16

Post by bpodgursky »

f430 wrote: post #2

What is it about game development field that makes it so labor intensive with consistent overtimes? I tried to make a simple FPS game and it was astounding how much work was involved. Took 6 month of learning Unreal and Unity and gave up with a functioning prototype. Took 4 months of back and forth with Steam to list my game. Even harder trying to make money off it. I'm just in awe of Roblox, Minecraft, Fall Guy and…

I know it sounds trite, but it really is supply and demand.

So so so many developers want to build games. The market for developers making things that _aren't_ games is red-hot. But because they REALLY want to develop games, game companies can use them to their limit for low pay.

Re: Game developers sharing their salaries on Twitter

#17

Post by jasonwatkinspdx »

f430 wrote: post #2

What is it about game development field that makes it so labor intensive with consistent overtimes? I tried to make a simple FPS game and it was astounding how much work was involved. Took 6 month of learning Unreal and Unity and gave up with a functioning prototype. Took 4 months of back and forth with Steam to list my game. Even harder trying to make money off it. I'm just in awe of Roblox, Minecraft, Fall Guy and…

Modern AAA games involve an absolute ton of work, but the reason for the consistent overtime is that abusive labor practices have become institutionalized within the industry in the US. The EA lawsuit is a famous example, but truly is just the tip of the iceberg. Most gamedevs become personally invested in what they're doing enough that the studios/publishers know they can underpay and overwork their staff. I was briefly in the industry at the end of the 90s, and still talk with people in the biz today occasionally. From what they tell me things just keep getting worse on this point.

Re: Game developers sharing their salaries on Twitter

#18

Post by SamuelAdams »

This isn't unique to game dev. This is true in education as well - most white collar positions pay between 40 - 100k while vice presidents and presidents get 250k + packages.

I think more developers need to get better at negotiating. One 10 minute conversation can beat years of 2-4% raises. It's all about setting expectations and being willing to walk away.

Post reply on HN