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My life as a woman in tech, told in three beverages

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Re: My life as a woman in tech, told in three beverages

#81

Post by techbio »

techbio wrote: post #75

All 3 beverages caffeinated, of course... Wonder how that affects interpersonal transactions. Anybody on edge and slightly ahead of themselves? Everybody? Just want to recommend L-Theanine to smooth the jagged edges. Men and women both ought to notch it back as far as I can tell. EDIT: I thought it might be pertinent, but clearly the battle of the sexes is more interesting to all of you. Grow up.

OK, ok, I read the article, it was actually fun and witty and couched in a happy-hour tone with "adult beverages" mentioned both in the introduction and conclusion.

She seems smart and righteous and tougher than she probably looks. I would rather work with her than be one of those guys trying to explain why he isn't pressing charges for assault and/or battery.

If only I could use those tactics when facing up with challenging coworkers, I would have a different set of battle stories.

Re: My life as a woman in tech, told in three beverages

#82

Post by klyrs »

rasputnik6502 wrote: post #26
alisonkisk wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Calling a woman a girl, while calling a man a man, might be why you find it hard to form positive rapport with her.

i dont think this is relevant, she's not the only female developer in the team and i have rather a positive rapport with everyne else. It's just how the normal work situation becomes twisted into personal, full of self-defense and finger pointing, with potential to develop into crazy if i dont back off. PS after giving this one more thought, i dont think i ever patronized someone because of gender, but must honestly…

> i dont think i ever patronized someone because of gender

Do you habitually call any of the men you work with "boy"?

Re: My life as a woman in tech, told in three beverages

#83

Post by floatingatoll »

rasputnik6502 wrote: post #72
floatingatoll wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> when the women asked him to stop he couldn't As a functioning human adult, "wouldn't" is the correct word here. It may seem like a small matter, but it's not: saying "couldn't" is a very popular way to represent the idea that men aren't responsible for behavior that others find unacceptable, especially when it's towards women. Please take more care around your phrasing in the future. > apart from the fact that he t…

Yes, basically agree, i'm just saying that men are trying to avoid responsibility for their actions by behaving like a child. Im not saying this is right, it's just how people behave. Boys just do stupid things to avoid admitting defeat or losing face in front of the group, and these stupid things include disobedience, provocation or bullying. The other direction is - if you can't go this path and have your way by fo…

While I respect that you’re facing a situation involving women, my advice above is directed to men dealing with other men, and my guidance does not vary based on the strategy used by bad men, so I don’t see any way to contribute productively to your line of reasoning.

Re: My life as a woman in tech, told in three beverages

#84

Post by klyrs »

scpedicini wrote: post #60
DoreenMichele wrote: post #52

I really like the part where they decided to just have her greet everyone and see how that went. That's a brilliant hack.

I don't know... I feel like putting her into that position exposed her to a lot of negative energy that she may not have necessarily received in the first place. If I personally was the brunt of all that crap, it would definitely get to me personally - so while I appreciate the company's approach ideologically I think emotionally it might've done more psychological damage to her in the long run.

As a woman who has endured a standard helping of sexist toxicity in the workplace, I'd much rather front-load it like this rather than be surprised that my department hired yet another jerk.

Re: My life as a woman in tech, told in three beverages

#85

Post by rasputnik6502 »

klyrs wrote: post #82
rasputnik6502 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i dont think this is relevant, she's not the only female developer in the team and i have rather a positive rapport with everyne else. It's just how the normal work situation becomes twisted into personal, full of self-defense and finger pointing, with potential to develop into crazy if i dont back off. PS after giving this one more thought, i dont think i ever patronized someone because of gender, but must honestly…

> i dont think i ever patronized someone because of gender Do you habitually call any of the men you work with "boy"?

i can call my coworkers boys and girls here, it's not relevant - as long as i dont do that when interacting with them. If you feel offended by use of 'girl' or 'boy' in such context then it's your choice, i cant do much about it.

Re: My life as a woman in tech, told in three beverages

#86

Post by klyrs »

rasputnik6502 wrote: post #85
klyrs wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> i dont think i ever patronized someone because of gender Do you habitually call any of the men you work with "boy"?

i can call my coworkers boys and girls here, it's not relevant - as long as i dont do that when interacting with them. If you feel offended by use of 'girl' or 'boy' in such context then it's your choice, i cant do much about it.

You can call them that, sure. Do you habitually call any specific man "boy"? Because, whether or not you intend it to be, many women find this specific pattern that you're exhibiting to be patronizing.

Re: My life as a woman in tech, told in three beverages

#87

Post by rasputnik6502 »

klyrs wrote: post #86
rasputnik6502 wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i can call my coworkers boys and girls here, it's not relevant - as long as i dont do that when interacting with them. If you feel offended by use of 'girl' or 'boy' in such context then it's your choice, i cant do much about it.

You can call them that, sure. Do you habitually call any specific man "boy"? Because, whether or not you intend it to be, many women find this specific pattern that you're exhibiting to be patronizing.

Well, if i called my coworker 'girl' in a conversation with her then it would be patronizing and belittling. But when i use 'girl' to refer to a female coworker in an internet discussion, without identifying any person, then how this can be patronizing and to whom?

Maybe we should stop using the word 'girlfriend' and say 'womanfriend' instead?

And btw what about 'girls in tech' organization? Is it patronizing?

Re: My life as a woman in tech, told in three beverages

#88

Post by klyrs »

rasputnik6502 wrote: post #87
klyrs wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can call them that, sure. Do you habitually call any specific man "boy"? Because, whether or not you intend it to be, many women find this specific pattern that you're exhibiting to be patronizing.

Well, if i called my coworker 'girl' in a conversation with her then it would be patronizing and belittling. But when i use 'girl' to refer to a female coworker in an internet discussion, without identifying any person, then how this can be patronizing and to whom? Maybe we should stop using the word 'girlfriend' and say 'womanfriend' instead? And btw what about 'girls in tech' organization? Is it patronizing?

If nothing else, it highlights, an (at least) unconscious bias on your part. Language matters, and you can work on it.

Boyfriend/girlfriend labels are equitable, and that relationship implies a familiarity for which a diminutive is typical and appropriate. Notably, this is not a professional relationship.

Girls in tech is about recruiting and supporting female children interested in tech. That's okay, because they're children. Your coworker is an adult, and it behooves you to treat them like one. For example, if she isn't acting like an adult, that's an issue to address in a professional manner, rather than call her a girl behind her back.

Re: My life as a woman in tech, told in three beverages

#89

Post by rasputnik6502 »

klyrs wrote: post #88
rasputnik6502 wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, if i called my coworker 'girl' in a conversation with her then it would be patronizing and belittling. But when i use 'girl' to refer to a female coworker in an internet discussion, without identifying any person, then how this can be patronizing and to whom? Maybe we should stop using the word 'girlfriend' and say 'womanfriend' instead? And btw what about 'girls in tech' organization? Is it patronizing?

If nothing else, it highlights, an (at least) unconscious bias on your part. Language matters, and you can work on it. Boyfriend/girlfriend labels are equitable, and that relationship implies a familiarity for which a diminutive is typical and appropriate. Notably, this is not a professional relationship. Girls in tech is about recruiting and supporting female children interested in tech. That's okay, because they're…

[quote]Girls in tech is about recruiting and supporting female children interested in tech. That's okay, because they're children[/quote]

Ok i can swallow being accused of thoughtcrime (at least!), and will punish myself for it, but are you implying 'Girls in tech' is engaging in illegal employment of minors? That's a bold statement.

Re: My life as a woman in tech, told in three beverages

#90

Post by [deleted] »

rasputnik6502 wrote: post #89
klyrs wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If nothing else, it highlights, an (at least) unconscious bias on your part. Language matters, and you can work on it. Boyfriend/girlfriend labels are equitable, and that relationship implies a familiarity for which a diminutive is typical and appropriate. Notably, this is not a professional relationship. Girls in tech is about recruiting and supporting female children interested in tech. That's okay, because they're…

[quote]Girls in tech is about recruiting and supporting female children interested in tech. That's okay, because they're children[/quote] Ok i can swallow being accused of thoughtcrime (at least!), and will punish myself for it, but are you implying 'Girls in tech' is engaging in illegal employment of minors? That's a bold statement.

[deleted]
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