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Request for comments regarding topics to be discussed at Dark Patterns workshop

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Re: Request for comments regarding topics to be discussed at Dark Patterns workshop

#481

Post by rolandog »

I confess that I don't really understand what is going on with the script running constantly behind the scenes in the PlantUML login page [0].

It seems to be constantly sending GET requests to a tracking pixel with data passed through a query in the URL; it seems to be either tracking or profiling (maybe even mining?). After some googling, this may be part of Ezoic [1], a forward proxy tracker.

Since it is a locally-hosted script, it would be hard to block by domain name alone.

Would this classify as a Dark Pattern?

[0]: https://plantuml.com/login/ [1]: https://datacadamia.com/marketing/analytics/ezoic

Re: Request for comments regarding topics to be discussed at Dark Patterns workshop

#482

Post by rocqua »

jwitthuhn wrote: post #428
thejosh wrote: post #383

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft has really pushed this in the recent(?) versions of Windows 10. When it was first released it wasn't this bad, now it pretty much forces you during install to link an account then also forces you later (as you mentioned).

Yeah this is still happening in Windows 10. I reinstalled Win 10 Pro recently and the only way to make a local account during initial setup was to unplug the ethernet cable on my desktop. As long as an internet connection is up, it isn't even a hidden option.

I did a reinstall of windows pro N last week, and had the PC connected to the network. It required a few non-prominent buttons, but I manged to only make a local account. I was still caught out by the security questions though.

I suppose this might be the difference due to the N version. If I recall this leaves out some of the default media encoders to avoid some anti-trust legislation in Europe. Might be that they are slightly less aggresive with these dark patterns in that version.

Re: Request for comments regarding topics to be discussed at Dark Patterns workshop

#483

Post by deepstack »

dnw wrote: post #339
yawnxyz wrote: post #282

I hate it when Linkedin or Lunchclub does a "connect your friends!" and you accidentally click a button and it literally launches spam invites for your entire address book. Worst part is that NO ONE has ever called them out for such a dark pattern, but the pattern forces ppl to send unsolicited emails to their contacts AND pretends it's meant to be sent by the person. Incredibly devious

Signal did this when I signed up and gave access to contacts. I usually don’t give access to contacts but this is Signal!

Which remind me that DP of Signal is not very usable unless you give it access to your contact. When you try to send message by number it will say Error, Request failed: client error (429).

Re: Request for comments regarding topics to be discussed at Dark Patterns workshop

#484

Post by rolandog »

Hnrobert42 wrote: post #18

It was surprisingly easy to register a comment. For those of you commenting here, consider clicking through and comment there.

No kidding! I copy/pasted my HN comment verbatim, as it was also a question to verify if a tracker that runs constantly that isn't able to be blocked by domain counts as a Dark Pattern.

Edit: Here is a link to that comment [0].

[0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27023236

Re: Request for comments regarding topics to be discussed at Dark Patterns workshop

#485

Post by aviraldg »

drexlspivey wrote: post #378
bogwog wrote: post #152

A common one is fake consent popups for system notifications. Websites need to ask for consent before sending system notifications via the Notifications API. If a user declines, that website is blocked from asking again (for obvious reasons) But many websites cheat this by showing a fake consent popup designed to mimic what the browser would show. If a user clicks "Decline" on the fake popup, the website won't show t…

A similar one is asking you to rate the app via the native modal (which does nothing) and if you rate with 5 stars they redirect you to the app store to vote there (where it counts). If you rate them with 1-3 stars they prompt you to leave feedback instead.

I agree that this is a dark pattern, but I also empathise with whoever first implemented this. Negative reviews are often just "this doesn't work", no further information. That's not actionable at all as a developer, and even if you somehow do fix the underlying issue, it's pretty difficult (or impossible) to get people to update their reviews.

Re: Request for comments regarding topics to be discussed at Dark Patterns workshop

#486

Post by evh »

iankp wrote: post #15

TrustArc is a company used by major brands that utilizes dark patterns to FAKE opt-out time for GDRP compliance. Major companies employ lies. It will hold your browser captive for 2 minutes in hopes that you cancel or accept all. If you don't, it shows "We are processing the requested change to your cookie preferences. This may take up to a few minutes to process.". Not even incompetence could make this an honest pro…

I get this on docker.com without my script blocker.

Essential only -> Processing please wait (but you can cancel)

Customize -> Trying to trick me into allowing more, then processing as above

Accept -> Instant success

Took some screenshots since this is ridiculous (I may just not be used to the modern web since I aggressively block scripts): https://imgur.com/a/fJB0aHz

My favorite part is having to pull a bar up to decrease my consent-level.

Re: Request for comments regarding topics to be discussed at Dark Patterns workshop

#487

Post by nfRfqX5n »

nfRfqX5n wrote: post #347

airbnb issues refunds as credit. when you go to book a place, the default option to pay is "pay half now, half later". the trick is, they don't let you use credit for the 2nd payment. users can only find this by digging through the rules. currently dealing with this as I am just trying to use my credit due to covid cancellations (credits also EXPIRE after a year)

there's also no way to check your credit balance until you're at the payment step of a new booking. you have to ask support to tell you how much you have and when it expires. absolutely insane

Re: Request for comments regarding topics to be discussed at Dark Patterns workshop

#488

Post by tekknik »

mrtksn wrote: post #453
drexlspivey wrote: post #378

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A similar one is asking you to rate the app via the native modal (which does nothing) and if you rate with 5 stars they redirect you to the app store to vote there (where it counts). If you rate them with 1-3 stars they prompt you to leave feedback instead.

The only problems here are the use of UI that mimics the native one and opening the App Store without users intent. It's actually a good idea to ask the user for feedback internally, a lot of low star reviews are bug reports or help requests that wouldn't help anyone(those who don't have the app yet wouldn't know how relevant that issue is for them and the developers won't have a channel to communicate and help the u…

> It's actually a good idea to ask the user for feedback internally, a lot of low star reviews are bug reports or help requests that wouldn't help anyone

But importantly ask the user once, and only once, do not force the user to leave a review. Doing so will lead to more one star reviews along the lines of “wouldn’t stop asking for a review”

Also I immediately hate any app asking for a review. It may be useful for the developer but it’s user hostile imo.

Re: Request for comments regarding topics to be discussed at Dark Patterns workshop

#489

Post by ChrisMarshallNY »

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #122
FredPret wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve tried some ML plant ID apps and they were all totally off. What’s this good one called, if you don’t mind saying?

https://www.picturethisai.com I should qualify this by saying I have a small yard on Long Island, NY. The weeds and plants are fairly distinct and well-known. Depending on where you are, YMMV.

I should also mention that this app is a battery hog, the likes of which I have never before encountered (and I include the Facebook app in that generalization). Just running it for about three minutes, knocks 2% off my battery.

Re: Request for comments regarding topics to be discussed at Dark Patterns workshop

#490

Post by hambast »

bogwog wrote: post #152

A common one is fake consent popups for system notifications. Websites need to ask for consent before sending system notifications via the Notifications API. If a user declines, that website is blocked from asking again (for obvious reasons) But many websites cheat this by showing a fake consent popup designed to mimic what the browser would show. If a user clicks "Decline" on the fake popup, the website won't show t…

I’ve done this for an app but not for nefarious reasons. A huge part of the app is location based and users would deny location permissions and then not be able to turn it back on (you can go through settings but an awful lot of people don’t know how). The soft ask is one time when your start the app (with an explanation as to why) and if you deny access there it’ll only ever ask again if you tap something like the ‘use my location’ button.
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