I think a more effective route forward here is for places like YC to set standards for their portfolio companies. Only the strongest investors can do this, but once they do, it will setup a new playing field and the YC brand could mean 'no dark patterns here' in the way that buying an Apple product signifies quality hardware and privacy. It could act as an 'integrity' label that companies purchasing software would use when evaluating new products. YC companies are better than most at this, but I've seen a few bad actors lately that have caused me to question whether its true across the board.
Request for comments regarding topics to be discussed at Dark Patterns workshop
121–130 of 542 posts
Re: Request for comments regarding topics to be discussed at Dark Patterns workshop
#122I had an experience a couple of days ago with exactly this type of thing (I downloaded the comment form, and I'll send it in). In this case, it nearly cost the app maker a sale (I doubt they'll go out of business on the loss of my sale. As it happened, they didn't actually lose the sale). I wanted to ID some of the plants in my yard, looking for native vs. introduced, so I downloaded a couple of apps. One was a good…
I’ve tried some ML plant ID apps and they were all totally off. What’s this good one called, if you don’t mind saying?
https://www.picturethisai.com
I should qualify this by saying I have a small yard on Long Island, NY. The weeds and plants are fairly distinct and well-known.
Depending on where you are, YMMV.
Re: Request for comments regarding topics to be discussed at Dark Patterns workshop
#123I can offer them some comments about dark patterns in government regulation.
Re: Request for comments regarding topics to be discussed at Dark Patterns workshop
#124I had an experience a couple of days ago with exactly this type of thing (I downloaded the comment form, and I'll send it in). In this case, it nearly cost the app maker a sale (I doubt they'll go out of business on the loss of my sale. As it happened, they didn't actually lose the sale). I wanted to ID some of the plants in my yard, looking for native vs. introduced, so I downloaded a couple of apps. One was a good…
Have you tried Seek (https://www.inaturalist.org/pages/seek_app)? It's from iNaturalist, which might be the community-based one you found, but you can easily ignore the community stuff and use it without an account. Works pretty well, I recommend it.
Re: Request for comments regarding topics to be discussed at Dark Patterns workshop
#125Although not software, gym memberships are notorious for using all manner of slimy tactics to keep you paying. Online reps can't do anything, your local gym somehow never has a "manager" around who can do anything. You can "freeze" your account but then they can just arbitrarily unfreeze and start charging you again. Very close to having my CC company issue a charge-back to our local gym for fraud. Very shady and hopefully these can be made illegal.
Re: Request for comments regarding topics to be discussed at Dark Patterns workshop
#126Earlier quoted context omitted.
New York Times does this also. As far as I can tell it's literally impossible to cancel a subscription. I had to close the card attached to my account.
I'm highly in favor of making this illegal. My credit card expired and I switched my NYT subscription from through their website to through Apple (so I could cancel), and they sent my account to collections! Working with the collections agency to get it removed was easy, however. I guess the law that I would be in favor of is twofold: 1) You must be able to cancel subscriptions from the same website that you created…
I would be in favor of a different approach: a merchant should not, under any circumstances, be able to remove money from an account, charge a credit card, or otherwise take money from someone without the explicit authorization of the customer. In this context, explicit means one of two things:
1. The customer intentionally authorized that specific transaction. A specific transaction means one transaction. If a merchant wants to use this approach, they need to ask for authorization each time they charge.
2. The merchant may register a subscription or other recurring charge arrangement with the customer’s bank or card provider. The customer must explicitly authorize this registration at the time it occurs and may, by contacting their bank, revoke the authorization at any time. The merchant may not recreate the authorization without the customer re-authorizing it at the time of creation.
Eventually, the whole pull model of money transfers needs to go away. Taking money from someone by knowing their account number is nonsensical and should not be possible.
Re: Request for comments regarding topics to be discussed at Dark Patterns workshop
#127Earlier quoted context omitted.
While I agree this is a regrettable practice, the social media sites in question do the same thing too. The argument that Facebook is acting in users best interest by preventing websites from spamming users to use an app is incredibly self serving and not really all that believable. I too wish it would go away, but both sites not having equal access the users in a similar way is anti competitive imo. Especially for b…
I agree that this practice should go away - if you believe that, then the goal should be to eliminate this shady practice entirely, not try to make it more prevalent like you were suggesting before editing your comment.
Agreed, sorry for editing after you replied.
Re: Request for comments regarding topics to be discussed at Dark Patterns workshop
#128TrustArc is a company used by major brands that utilizes dark patterns to FAKE opt-out time for GDRP compliance. Major companies employ lies. It will hold your browser captive for 2 minutes in hopes that you cancel or accept all. If you don't, it shows "We are processing the requested change to your cookie preferences. This may take up to a few minutes to process.". Not even incompetence could make this an honest pro…
Wow, that is pretty blatent. When EU stomps on them I'm sure someone else will pop up. Any chance the companies employing trustarc could be liable?
The way GDPR works, I think the companies using TrustArc are more likely to be held liable than TrustArc itself. Unless TrustArc makes the unforced error of getting itself classified as a Data Controller.
Re: Request for comments regarding topics to be discussed at Dark Patterns workshop
#129Earlier quoted context omitted.
About 10yrs ago NBA did this to me. They made it impossible to cancel a $99/m sub. Their instructions were login and go to the cancel button but the cancel button was broken and said call this number. But no one ever picked up the number. I will never buy a NBA branded thing after that obvious bullshit scam.
New York Times does this also. As far as I can tell it's literally impossible to cancel a subscription. I had to close the card attached to my account.
I was able to cancel
my subscription with minimal fuss.
I did have to interact with a chat window, which was of course annoying.
I also made damn sure I received a cancellation email. Too many horror stories to not do my due diligence.
Re: Request for comments regarding topics to be discussed at Dark Patterns workshop
#130I had an experience a couple of days ago with exactly this type of thing (I downloaded the comment form, and I'll send it in). In this case, it nearly cost the app maker a sale (I doubt they'll go out of business on the loss of my sale. As it happened, they didn't actually lose the sale). I wanted to ID some of the plants in my yard, looking for native vs. introduced, so I downloaded a couple of apps. One was a good…
> The moral of the story is that they were so big on a dark pattern, I'll be getting the subscription. Yeah thanks for rewarding them for that.
>> The moral of the story is that they were so big on a dark pattern, I'll be getting the subscription.
> Yeah thanks for rewarding them for that.
That was not a nice thing to do -altering a quote, to make it appear as if I said something I didn't. I am leaving your response in its unmodified entirety, above.
Look, you have your opinion, I have mine, but It's a decent app. I will be providing feedback to them -as a paying subscriber, there's a good chance my feedback will be heard.
But the thing I have against dark patterns, is the same thing I have against what you did -it's dishonest.