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Request for comments regarding topics to be discussed at Dark Patterns workshop

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Re: Request for comments regarding topics to be discussed at Dark Patterns workshop

#301
Honestly all websites should support a no-script, static version to prevent 90% of the webs BS. We used to be able to view sites with JavaScript disabled and actually things would work.

Also, instead of arbitrary cookies why not standardize authentication/authorization security mechanisms to avoid having those stupid cookie pop ups.

At this point there are common web pattern which separates the essentials from the BS—so why not get rid of the BS and keep the good stuff?

Re: Request for comments regarding topics to be discussed at Dark Patterns workshop

#302
post #297

Windows 10 does not respect the "default browser" setting when opening web-based content through apps. For example, clicking on "Help" links or search results from the start menu always opens in Edge. This seems far worse than their IE-bundling issue back in the day... at least users have a few web browsers to choose from, but what good is that when user preference is overridden?

Doesn't Apple do the same with Safari? On macOS I think Safari opens up sometimes even though my default browser is Firefox. Maybe when clicking links in Apple Mails? Not sure. It's funny how Apple gets away when doing the same thing or worse than Windows, yet Windows is always the one getting criticism. Like how Apple always try to enable Siri after an update. Or how managing when an update should be done is incredi…

Almost certain that macOS opens everything in my default browser of choice when clicking on a link in AirMail (Firefox).

Re: Request for comments regarding topics to be discussed at Dark Patterns workshop

#303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This was driving me crazy too, turns out that my adblocker was breaking the consent box. Clicking “Accept” didn’t do anything.

Which adblocker?

I am having the same issue too on Mac Safari with AdGuard.

Re: Request for comments regarding topics to be discussed at Dark Patterns workshop

#304
post #152

A common one is fake consent popups for system notifications. Websites need to ask for consent before sending system notifications via the Notifications API. If a user declines, that website is blocked from asking again (for obvious reasons) But many websites cheat this by showing a fake consent popup designed to mimic what the browser would show. If a user clicks "Decline" on the fake popup, the website won't show t…

App developers do this in their apps too when asking to rate the app in the App Store. They first show you a fake popup asking if you are enjoying the app OR want to send feedback. They will only show you the real iOS popup for reviewing the app if you tap "Yes" to the enjoying app.

Re: Request for comments regarding topics to be discussed at Dark Patterns workshop

#305
post #285
post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes - they're circumventing the intent of the permissions restrictions implementation to the clear detriment of the user.

Highly debatable. In fact, trying to classify it as a dark pattern may derail the very valid discussion that the FTC is trying to have. There are significantly worse patterns out there. See [1]. What the push notification pattern is, is annoying. And it is specially annoying because of a prevalence of confirmation dialogs all over the Web with GDPR/CCPA, paid subscriptions, etc. But does it cause harm or monetary los…

The pattern tries to avoid an outcome desired by the user: permanently revoking consent for some permission. Only asking when you are confident the answer is Yes goes against the intent of the platform functionality, and I’d argue that’s a major dark pattern.

Similar to how apps used to ask “how do you like app?” And then only prompt to review the app if you responded favorably. Goes entirely against the app store’s intent to uniformly sample users, and I’m glad Apple at least has cracked down on this practice.

Just honestly make a product and stop trying to fool the user!

Re: Request for comments regarding topics to be discussed at Dark Patterns workshop

#306
post #152

A common one is fake consent popups for system notifications. Websites need to ask for consent before sending system notifications via the Notifications API. If a user declines, that website is blocked from asking again (for obvious reasons) But many websites cheat this by showing a fake consent popup designed to mimic what the browser would show. If a user clicks "Decline" on the fake popup, the website won't show t…

Thank you! This is something that has been annoying the hell out of me on instagram using desktop Firefox.

Every time I login it prompts to show notifications; I always decline so it shows it again next time I log in. This time I accepted, but blocked it from within firefox.

I get it's not a dark pattern because it's clear it's not the browser asking, but still it's very annoying.

Re: Request for comments regarding topics to be discussed at Dark Patterns workshop

#307
post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple does this as well on iOS where certain stock apps like Books always open links in Safari even when you have a different default browser set.

to be fair, there is nothing other than safari on iOS...despite the window dressing.

Right, but other browsers have better behaviors to some people. For example, Safari's behavior of opening links as new tabs in the foreground is very annoying to me.

Re: Request for comments regarding topics to be discussed at Dark Patterns workshop

#308
post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this really a dark pattern? There's tons of truly deceptive practices but this is one where websites are plainly asking for permissions.

The browser is designed so that a website gets one chance to ask for that permission, rather than nag every single time you visit. If it's not a dark pattern to ask again every time you hit Deny, then why don't they do it again every time you hit Allow?

It’s a trick to try to take a yes / no choice and sneakily turn it into a “yes / ask me again later” choice. Silicon Valley in general seems to have a huge problem with the idea of user consent and permanently revoking consent.

Re: Request for comments regarding topics to be discussed at Dark Patterns workshop

#309
post #51

Slack has a fun dark pattern - they purposefully remove functionality from their web app to make you install their native app. The web app has a workspace switcher sidebar, but it only appears on ChromeOS, where you can't install the native client. https://webapps.stackexchange.com/questions/144258/slacks-we...

Discord does this as well. If they detect a mobile user agent they disable the button to hide the member list which makes group chats unusable. If you just change your user agent the button re-appears and you don't even need the app unless your browser doesn't handle voice and you need that.

Re: Request for comments regarding topics to be discussed at Dark Patterns workshop

#310
post #71
post #51

Slack has a fun dark pattern - they purposefully remove functionality from their web app to make you install their native app. The web app has a workspace switcher sidebar, but it only appears on ChromeOS, where you can't install the native client. https://webapps.stackexchange.com/questions/144258/slacks-we...

Reddit is just as guilty of this. If you want to see all the comments on a thread on their mobile site, you're pushed to install their official app and presumably create an account when doing so. As far as I can tell, the best workaround is to use the desktop site.

I'm so thankful for the Reddit redesign, I had a serious problem spending way too much time on that site. Now it's almost completely unusable.
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