Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

youtube.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

481–490 of 503 posts

Re: Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

#481

Post by dredmorbius »

cma wrote: post #469
dredmorbius wrote: post #438

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The original question was whether or not audio could be fingerprinted from white noise, or if compression would obscure that fingerprint. The original context was YouTube videos specifically. Sufficient to support the latter assertion was that lossy compression is frequently used. YouTube's webm does in fact use lossy compression as noted. MP3 is, I assert, still significantly used in multiple contexts, including man…

Re: opus 'Opus (audio format) - Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org › wiki › Opus_(audio_format) CELT includes both spectral replication and noise generation, similar to AAC's SBR and PNS'

Which would mean that at least some of the white noise signature of an opus-encoded audio track would be ... a compression or encoding artefact.

Does opus have a notion of bitrates similar to mp3 or ogg vorbis? If so, the white noise would vary among bitrates.

Re: Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

#482

Post by johnnyanmac »

lacksconfidence wrote: post #170
robobro wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would you assume that videos have to be shared to YouTube to get views? I really hope that the majority of adults know how to click on or share a hyperlink. If not, there is a big problem.

Because while i don't have numbers, i'd bet a weeks pay that the vast majority of youtube views (especially after exluding viral content) come through the youtube recommendation system and not external hyperlinks.

>i'd bet a weeks pay that the vast majority of youtube views (especially after exluding viral content) come through the youtube recommendation system and not external hyperlinks.

I'd take that bet. There's a lot the agorithm does, but there's also a lot of companies and people sharing links to the videos. Any new movie trailer or album drop would definitely be linked from twitter or some company homepage. And I wager those are what make up the most views.

But I wouldn't be surprised to be right or wrong on this. the recommendations certainly aren't a tiny portion.

Re: Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

#483

Post by johnnyanmac »

dredmorbius wrote: post #414
ratww wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think Beethoven is willing to sue her. His lawyers will probably remind him that he's been dead for a while. What happened here is a problem unique to Youtube. Nobody will get sued for the same reasons she's getting taken down. For other reasons? Sure, but that's also can happen in Youtube.

In this case, yes. In the general case, someone (or some thing ) can sue for pretty much any reason whatsoever. One of the unappreciated roles of publishers and distributors is that they also serve as a legal defence organisation. You'll often hear people talk of how the publisher of a newspaper, magazine, or books also have lawyers to deal with, say, libel or other claims. Copyright isn't the only consideration here…

>In the general case, someone (or some thing) can sue for pretty much any reason whatsoever.

in the general case, copyright trolls aren't going to pursue Joe Schmoe over their indie band cover. you'd put hundreds in and barely make pennies back even if you win.

But in the youtube case, it's an easy profit with little consequence. Suing is easy, but costly. DMCA's is easy and zero cost, especially once you automate it.

Re: Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

#484

Post by johnnyanmac »

globular-toast wrote: post #28
bitcharmer wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With law enforcement at least you get to talk to people. With YouTube/Google all your complaints go straight to /dev/null

Only if you're a big enough company and/or have to the right contacts. Do you think regular people could get the police to raid a data centre or something on grounds of copyright infringement?

no, but a 10YO troll in Brazil sure can get the FBI to raid the home of an American streamer they don't like.

Not saying it's even by any means, but it's better than zero human response. There will at least be some case in a govt. record should some bad actor keep getting reported, unlike Google.

Re: Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

#485

Post by johnnyanmac »

Sebb767 wrote: post #123
bertil wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Since there is no legal penalty for a "false positive", I’m really confused by that part: YouTube lawyers must know that there’s a significant risk they’ll piss of a someone like a law professor and that they’ll use all their faculty to go after what is essentially fraud: there are provisions in the CDMA precisely for that, and the platform is liable for indulging those in systematic cases. Even if it’s not, they a…

> there are provisions in the CDMA precisely for that, and the platform is liable for indulging those in systematic cases. (assuming you mean DMCA) Yes, that has provisions, but YT copyright claims are explicitly not DMCA claims. This is intentional to both protect the content creator (lawsuits are expensive!) and YouTube. > YouTube lawyers must know that there’s a significant risk they’ll piss of a someone like a la…

>YouTube can ban you from the platform at any time for any reason. While it's not good publicity, you don't have a legal right to be on YouTube or receive money from them.

no, but being compliant in fraud goes farther than arbitrarily banning a user. Not a lawyer, and odds are there's not enough care to address this point legally anyway. But I don't think the potential case here is as open and shut as "we have the rights to refuse service".

Re: Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

#486

Post by colejohnson66 »

dominostars wrote: post #293
blacklight wrote: post #262

I've already stated this many times, I'll state it again. Get your shit out of YouTube and any other Google product. Google is a dumb, faceless, fully automated company only interested in extracting as much data as possible from its users, force them to swallow as many ads as possible, all without caring about listening to them (both consumers and creators), under the faulty assumption that they're too big for users…

People are using this system intentionally as a scam. Recently, I tried uploading a video which had video game music in the background, and youtube flagged a copyright claim on behalf of someone who made a remix of the original song. I did not have a license to use the song, so that's fair, but my choices were either to drop my video or run ads that give money to someone who wasn't even the owner of the song I was tr…

Im not excusing what happened, but was the remix author actually making claims? Or did they just add a song to ContentID’s database? If it’s the former, that’s despicable and (almost certainly) illegal. If it’s the latter, it’s not their fault, but Google’s for having an overzealous system.

Re: Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

#487

Post by DreamScatter »

lovelyviking wrote: post #315
cdot2 wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People will complain about copyright precisely until they have some creative work of theirs sold by someone else. Professional authors cannot exist without copyright.

I complain about copyright precisely because I cannot even show my creative work. And if I'll try to upload it anywhere where people are then I will be stripped off any of my "rights" in that very moment. So how copyright helps in that case?

Your problem wasn't an issue with copyright but with YouTube's approach to handling copyright.

Re: Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

#488

Post by DreamScatter »

exporectomy wrote: post #30
anoncow wrote: post #12

Being able to access real people for support should be a mandatory requirement for big corporations offering services to the public directly.

No. Mandating real people won't help. I've dealt with real support people who are exactly as useless as the website's FAQ. They're powerless to make any special exceptions to the predefined process or even to escalate to someone who can. As an example, I can't use my main email address for an Apple ID account because apparently somebody else set it as their backup email and I may have carelessly clicked the accept li…

At least it's better than nothing.

Re: Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

#489

Post by aeortiz »

blacklight wrote: post #262

I've already stated this many times, I'll state it again. Get your shit out of YouTube and any other Google product. Google is a dumb, faceless, fully automated company only interested in extracting as much data as possible from its users, force them to swallow as many ads as possible, all without caring about listening to them (both consumers and creators), under the faulty assumption that they're too big for users…

Beethoven's copyright has long expired, and all music of the 18th and 19th centuries is in the public domain. (Disney notwithstanding)

Re: Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

#490

Post by TeeMassive »

lovelyviking wrote: post #448
TeeMassive wrote: post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Copyright is a way to encourage the production of new culture. Even if it is abused it doesn't remove all of its merits. Countries with weak copyright laws do produce or export content and are barely heard of and the reason why is not hard to deduce: all their top talents can't live out of what they produce and therefore go elsewhere. If you really want to go the deconstruction route, laws are unnatural but murder an…

>Copyright is a way to encourage the production of new culture. Perhaps it just was ? Things evolved. Digital tools now make everyone face the law that was invented for publishers while not every person is even aware about publishing nor wish to deal with it. People simply try to express themselves and punished for that like they are criminals. I do not think this is a way to encourage the production of new culture t…

You basically use one single anecdote while YouTube has literally made more millionaires among independent content creator than mainstream TV did in all its existence. The reason they can produce the content they do is that they can take have copyright protecting their work. The notion that copyright is "a tool for oppression of any form of self-expression" is false just on its face.

And if it weren't for for copyright most of programmers wouldn't have a decent salary and open source projects would have less protection.

There are certainly reforms needed in IP, but abolishing it completely is just throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

Post reply on HN