Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video] • Hacker News Board

Re: Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

#21

Post by genezeta » Sat, May 01, 2021, 9:33 AM UTC

tapland wrote: post #4

intricatedetail wrote: post #3

The current copyright law is unsustainable. Pretty much every melody you can think of is copyrighted and as an artist you can be anxious that anything you make can be claimed by someone else. Copyright laws need urgent change as they are not fit for purpose...

In this case that's not the problem. Beethoven isn't copyrighted, but public.

It's still related to copyright law.

If the law promotes, say by making it a default, that one side can easily benefit from a certain behaviour, then people, companies will assume that as the behaviour to favour. And then these are the consequences: that going around claiming rights on whatever you feel like is not only not punished by Youtube but carelessly accepted. Because it's just easier, less effort.

Re: Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

#22

Post by bitcharmer » Sat, May 01, 2021, 9:33 AM UTC

intricatedetail wrote: post #14

bluesign wrote: post #5

This is fraud. They claim they have right to something they don't, when you dispute, YouTube just directing them the dispute and they reject. As you don't want to risk 3 strike, you agree to share revenue. Basically Youtube doing nothing.

Have you ever tried to report fraud to authorities? Even if you show overwhelming evidence, details of perpetrator, chances are LE will laugh you out and say it is a civil matter.

With law enforcement at least you get to talk to people. With YouTube/Google all your complaints go straight to /dev/null

Re: Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

#23

Post by h0l0cube » Sat, May 01, 2021, 9:34 AM UTC

Jyaif wrote: post #9

I believe this is the video/music that claims the copyright of Moonlight Sonata (notice the downvotes): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ThyLB6bakk

The 2015 album is on Spotify too:

https://open.spotify.com/album/1eMRlKHhUiVQRncGQRBBmH?si=K3e...

Just seems like the artist played a slowed down Moonlight Sonata with some effects on top and the algorithm now thinks it's theirs. Hard to know if they know that they are blocking/leaching from other content creators.

Re: Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

#24

Post by stirlo » Sat, May 01, 2021, 9:35 AM UTC

swiley wrote: post #13

What a horribly broken platform. Thankfully Peertube appears to be gaining some traction due to its compatibility with Mastodon.

Yes, it expect it will have a near monopoly in the year desktop Linux goes mainstream…

Re: Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

#25

Post by Mordisquitos » Sat, May 01, 2021, 9:35 AM UTC

trinovantes wrote: post #7

I don't understand why YouTube doesn't use their content id system to detect these obvious public domain disputes.

Probably because it would cost them time and effort, but they have no incentive to do so. Why would they? At most, when cases such as this come to the public's attention, all that YouTube suffers is inconsequential reputational damage. This is easily and cheaply mitigated in PR terms if it gets bad enough by just handling the incident with a quick "Oops, sorry, our bad" and reinstating the removed material.

Meanwhile, the uncountable cases of illegitimate copyright takedowns which never make the news don't matter. What are the victims going to do about it? Sue? Use a YouTube competitor?

Re: Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

#26

Post by atoav » Sat, May 01, 2021, 9:36 AM UTC

polytely wrote: post #16

atoav wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah but certain Beethoven recordings are copyrighted. Legally you are totally allowed to play his works on an instrument, while you could still break someones copyright by e.g. using their 2019 recording of the work which they sell on CD or whatnot. How will sonic fingerprinting be able to decide whether it is that copyrighted work, or whether it is somwonw playing it live? It just won't

The problem is that Youtube is pretending that their shoddy sonic fingerprinting system works and is fine with 3rd parties using their dumb system to defraud their users

Yeah, I think they should mark recordings where the melody is public domain and review these cases manually.

Re: Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

#27

Post by fourseventy » Sat, May 01, 2021, 9:38 AM UTC

intricatedetail wrote: post #3

The current copyright law is unsustainable. Pretty much every melody you can think of is copyrighted and as an artist you can be anxious that anything you make can be claimed by someone else. Copyright laws need urgent change as they are not fit for purpose...

I agree. On top of that you have bands from 50 years ago suing each other because two riffs sound vaguely alike, its ridiculous.

Re: Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

#28

Post by globular-toast » Sat, May 01, 2021, 9:38 AM UTC

bitcharmer wrote: post #22

intricatedetail wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you ever tried to report fraud to authorities? Even if you show overwhelming evidence, details of perpetrator, chances are LE will laugh you out and say it is a civil matter.

With law enforcement at least you get to talk to people. With YouTube/Google all your complaints go straight to /dev/null

Only if you're a big enough company and/or have to the right contacts. Do you think regular people could get the police to raid a data centre or something on grounds of copyright infringement?

Re: Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

#29

Post by 2pEXgD0fZ5cF » Sat, May 01, 2021, 9:39 AM UTC

mcv wrote: post #15

This sort of thing happens way too often on Youtube, and it's far worse than merely violating copyright; here artists get denied ownership of their own expression of public domain music. Unlike mere copyright violation, this is actual copyright theft that Youtube is enabling here. It should be punished harder than merely copying someone else's work usually is, but instead this sort of direct theft seems to be allowed…

> here artists get denied ownership of their own expression of public domain music

Hell why stop there, music artists get their own original music stolen by Youtube who then proceeds to hand it to someone else, for anyone interested in a popular example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4AeoAWGJBw

Re: Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

#30

Post by exporectomy » Sat, May 01, 2021, 9:39 AM UTC

anoncow wrote: post #12

Being able to access real people for support should be a mandatory requirement for big corporations offering services to the public directly.

No. Mandating real people won't help. I've dealt with real support people who are exactly as useless as the website's FAQ. They're powerless to make any special exceptions to the predefined process or even to escalate to someone who can.

As an example, I can't use my main email address for an Apple ID account because apparently somebody else set it as their backup email and I may have carelessly clicked the accept link when I got the confirmation. I talked to a human Apple support person and his higher level colleague and was told that's probably what happened but they can't know for sure and even if they did, they can't fix it. The end. Bye.