Every OneTrust pop-up for GDPR I've seen is using multiple dark patterns to trick you into giving access to more than essential cookies.
Request for comments regarding topics to be discussed at Dark Patterns workshop
181–190 of 542 posts
Re: Request for comments regarding topics to be discussed at Dark Patterns workshop
#182Slack has a fun dark pattern - they purposefully remove functionality from their web app to make you install their native app. The web app has a workspace switcher sidebar, but it only appears on ChromeOS, where you can't install the native client. https://webapps.stackexchange.com/questions/144258/slacks-we...
I'm just impressed how bad slack is on mobile. Either I'm getting messages on my computer and phone (on phone after I've responded on the computer) or not at all.
I've been having this problem with push notifications for quite a few apps, but Slack just seems to genuinely do whatever the hell it wants, regardless of whatever I've set preferences to.
Re: Request for comments regarding topics to be discussed at Dark Patterns workshop
#183The worst one is probably trying to make it hard for users to stop paying for a service, like cancelling a subscription. That shit should be punishable by literal prison time.
The worst I’ve seen was Nord VPN. Three or four modals / screens where the action to stop your subscription was the smaller, secondary UI element, almost not even noticeable. How a dev or PM can live with themselves while implementing that I have no idea.
Nord has all kinds of problems.
My Nord subscription went from $5/month to $200/month recently. When I complained, the CSR told me to just cancel the account and sign up using the special offer link and a throwaway e-mail address.
That tells me there are deeper problems, and I'm not interested in doing business with that company.
Re: Request for comments regarding topics to be discussed at Dark Patterns workshop
#184I think a more effective route forward here is for places like YC to set standards for their portfolio companies. Only the strongest investors can do this, but once they do, it will setup a new playing field and the YC brand could mean 'no dark patterns here' in the way that buying an Apple product signifies quality hardware and privacy. It could act as an 'integrity' label that companies purchasing software would us…
Consumers do not know what YC is, and I'm not sure if YC wants to become a consumer brand certification.
YC, like all companies, is a brand. It is already expressed by alumni when applying for a job. It is sought by employers as a mark of validation that the person works hard and fast and knows how to innovate.
As YC scales and graduates more companies, they want to optimize their return on investment. Those companies that graduate from YC want to make sure their companies raise capital at a premium when future fundraising and ultimately IPOing or being acquired. The YC network is a thing in the VC community and a mark of a high opportunity investment.
Today, some purchasing managers are aware of its alumni companies and use it as a litmus that the company is cutting edge and innovative. Maybe most don't. Since sales ultimately lead to higher company valuations, perhaps this is something YC would want to focus on?
Re: Request for comments regarding topics to be discussed at Dark Patterns workshop
#185Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm highly in favor of making this illegal. My credit card expired and I switched my NYT subscription from through their website to through Apple (so I could cancel), and they sent my account to collections! Working with the collections agency to get it removed was easy, however. I guess the law that I would be in favor of is twofold: 1) You must be able to cancel subscriptions from the same website that you created…
I would be in favor of a different approach: a merchant should not, under any circumstances, be able to remove money from an account, charge a credit card, or otherwise take money from someone without the explicit authorization of the customer. In this context, explicit means one of two things: 1. The customer intentionally authorized that specific transaction. A specific transaction means one transaction. If a merch…
I'm always amazed reading that this isn't already the case in the US. In India, every charge requires SMS based 2fa. Starting a bank mandate (ECS/NACH) for automatic transfers needs me to physically sign a paper. It can be revoked any time by the user without any involvement of the receiving party, and can be done online as well.
Re: Request for comments regarding topics to be discussed at Dark Patterns workshop
#186Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is one of the few things that actually makes me happy with the closed ecosystem of the App Store on iOS. There's virtually no risk with subscriptions in there- they can all be canceled in a few clicks in the Subscriptions section of your Apple ID. And if something's straight up a scam or an accidental (but unconsumed) purchase, you can request a refund from Apple with rather little friction. First-party trials a…
> This is one of the few things that actually makes me happy with the closed ecosystem of the App Store on iOS. And yet there are scams that are costing users $5 million a year, or more, on the iOS App Store[1]. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26794228
I'd need to see the purchase page to fully form an opinion on this. Apple has rather strict guidelines for displaying cost and that appears to be one of the most important parts of app review. I'd equate someone being surprised by a subscription cost to someone not looking at menu prices when eating out: all purchases through the app store use the same sheet to display price, renewal period, free trial, etc when requesting payment.
Of course, the app's premise is a scam, but my comment was about the ease of canceling and managing subscriptions. Dare I say that apps like this would be even more bold and prevalent if alternative app stores were available.
Re: Request for comments regarding topics to be discussed at Dark Patterns workshop
#187Unpopular opinion, but as a developer I'm OK with using dark patterns for a certain projects when it comes to pricing, but not to churn prevention.
In niches with low margins and high competition, dark patterns are one of the few chances to survive and make money (ticket aggregators, hotel aggregations)
The user can pay $10 or $15 depends on how you communicate the value almost with the same set of features. However, for the product, the difference affects the business model and the unit economy dramatically.
Of course, subscription cancelling penalties sucks and should be ban.
Re: Request for comments regarding topics to be discussed at Dark Patterns workshop
#188I'm not sure if this counts as a dark pattern but any system with a notification dot should allow you to disable it or change the colour on it.
Re: Request for comments regarding topics to be discussed at Dark Patterns workshop
#189Although not software, gym memberships are notorious for using all manner of slimy tactics to keep you paying. Online reps can't do anything, your local gym somehow never has a "manager" around who can do anything. You can "freeze" your account but then they can just arbitrarily unfreeze and start charging you again. Very close to having my CC company issue a charge-back to our local gym for fraud. Very shady and hop…
A gym I had a membership with wouldn't let me cancel in person and insisted I do so via registered mail. So incredibly slimy.
Re: Request for comments regarding topics to be discussed at Dark Patterns workshop
#190Earlier quoted context omitted.
New York Times does this also. As far as I can tell it's literally impossible to cancel a subscription. I had to close the card attached to my account.
I'm highly in favor of making this illegal. My credit card expired and I switched my NYT subscription from through their website to through Apple (so I could cancel), and they sent my account to collections! Working with the collections agency to get it removed was easy, however. I guess the law that I would be in favor of is twofold: 1) You must be able to cancel subscriptions from the same website that you created…
I think unlimited recurring subscriptions should just not be allowed, period: all multipay plans should have a fixed & finite pay period, after which the service expires. Only the card holder has the unilateral right to re-establish the payments.