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Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

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Re: Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

#391

Post by jedberg »

zucker42 wrote: post #252
GordonS wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMO the biggest issue with all this is the lack of a suitable appeals process, handled by humans. Would such a process be expensive? Yes, but you can't have it both ways, enabling copyright holders to lodge spurious claims at will, and not allow content creators - who the entire platform is built on! - to disclaim them. Would such a process be expensive? Yes, of course - but YouTube can very well afford it.

I think the biggest issue is that the burden of proof and all the risk is on the person who's video is being claimed. False DMCA claims are free, practically riskless, and require no evidence.

> False DMCA claims are free, practically riskless, and require no evidence.

This is the crux of the issue. The DMCA needs to be amended so that filing an incorrect claim comes with some risk.

Re: Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

#392

Post by bcrescimanno »

ajross wrote: post #367
bcrescimanno wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with your assessment of Google; however, what is a reasonable alternative for a content creator who wants to publish their videos and be able to build an audience? You kinda have to go where the audience will be if you don't already have one and I'm not aware of any video discovery platforms with anywhere near the reach of YouTube. I've managed to get out of Google products almost entirely--YouTube remains th…

> however, what is a reasonable alternative for a content creator who wants to publish their videos and be able to build an audience? I think it's more instructive to look at it from the other side. What's the reasonable alternative for a video hosting service to doing this kind of policing? Remember it's not really an option to just throw video over the fence, DMCA requirements mean you have to be responsive. And th…

Completely agreed. I'd love to see Google (and let's get Twitch in there as well, while we're at it) working with content creators to push for legal change. To me, that's what's most disappointing: Google will spend millions on lobbying to legally collect more and more information about me; but, they don't have the inclination to use their size and scale to push a significant expansion of Fair Use Doctrine (or, if they do, they certainly aren't vocal about it).

Re: Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

#394

Post by Aunche »

tzs wrote: post #188
qayxc wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think the centralization plus trusting a company is the issue, I think that's not the issue at all. The problem is simply scale. Currently, about 5000 videos are uploaded to YT every minute . If just 0.1% of them have any potential copyright issues, that's 5 potentially complex cases per minute or 7200 per day. No amount of human review will be able to decide this in a timely manner. The piano teacher's case is j…

If they followed the DMCA instead of their own system it would scale just fine. It would scale because under the DMCA system the site is not responsible for finding violations. That is up to the copyright owners. All the site has to do is: 1. Take down alleged infringing content when someone claiming to be the copyright owner files a take-down notice. 2. Put the content back when whoever uploaded it files a counter-n…

I mean that's basically how it works right now:

https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/2807684?hl=en&ref_...

Re: Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

#395

Post by fsflover »

bcrescimanno wrote: post #390
fsflover wrote: post #386

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 1-3s long hiccups 4 times PeerTube is not one single website. It is a decentralized platform, where everyone can set up their own server and it will work as a part of the whole system (like emails work). This is why it will never be owned by a single entity like Google. You probably chose a slow server. It does not mean that the whole PeerTube is slow. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PeerTube

As stated above, I watched the promotional video from PeerTube themselves on the JoinPeertube.org website and experienced multiple hiccups in under 30s. If their own hosting isn't cutting it, what chance does anyone else have? > You probably chose a slow server. I didn't choose a server. I chose a video. The moment the service asks me to think about what server is hosting it is the moment I don't care enough to jump…

> from PeerTube themselves on the PeerTube.com

PeerTube.com is not "PeerTube themselves". This is one of the servers, not the best one. This is the official PeerTube website: https://joinpeertube.org. It will show search results on many servers.

> The moment the service asks me to think about what server is hosting it is the moment I don't care enough to jump through those hoops.

You only choose your server once, like you chose Youtube once. You do not need to jump through hoops.

> If their own hosting isn't cutting it

PeerTube (actually FramaSoft) is a non-profit organization. You shouldn't expect huge resources from them. Also peertube.com is not their server AFAIK.

Re: Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

#396

Post by DreamScatter »

yesenadam wrote: post #150
jeffwass wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I sympathise with her. I had a copyright claim on one of my YouTube videos (I’m totally small potatoes, handful of vids with dozens of views). I made a video of myself playing my own unique interpretation of The Safety Dance by Men Without Hats on piano. https://youtu.be/ZNfMZ6g9YWo I got a copyright violation notice shortly after posting it, by some random Latin American music company. It wasn’t clear if it was legi…

Not an expert, but I've been learning a lil about this lately. Royalties for performances of someone else's song are paid to the writers of the words and the music. The melody and words can be copyrighted, not the chords or style. So you can use the chords of an existing song and give it new melody and words, and it is your own song. Style has nothing to do it. I love this quote from the classic The Manual: How To Ha…

That doesn't have anything to do with black or white people. We don't need black people to change this copyright system, just people in general who want to make sure that musicians get paid. Saying this is an issue between black and white people is extremely ridiculous.

Re: Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

#397

Post by nine_k »

burkaman wrote: post #381
ajross wrote: post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> however, what is a reasonable alternative for a content creator who wants to publish their videos and be able to build an audience? I think it's more instructive to look at it from the other side. What's the reasonable alternative for a video hosting service to doing this kind of policing? Remember it's not really an option to just throw video over the fence, DMCA requirements mean you have to be responsive. And th…

The alternative is to responsibly scale your service. If your platform is so big that it can only be moderated by algorithms, and the algorithms don't work, then it's too big. Scale down until, at the very least, you can hire enough humans to review complaints when the algorithm does something wrong. Even better would be to have a human review every flagged violation to confirm it. Obviously, hiring humans is expensi…

To leave a ton of money on the table, and let the competition eat that space, because 0.1% of DMCA requests would be served with an overreaction?

Sorry, this is not going to make business sense. If you want a free video publishing platform that does user outreach for you, you got to pay a price; the false positives is a part of the price, alas.

Re: Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

#398

Post by creato »

bcrescimanno wrote: post #392
ajross wrote: post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> however, what is a reasonable alternative for a content creator who wants to publish their videos and be able to build an audience? I think it's more instructive to look at it from the other side. What's the reasonable alternative for a video hosting service to doing this kind of policing? Remember it's not really an option to just throw video over the fence, DMCA requirements mean you have to be responsive. And th…

Completely agreed. I'd love to see Google (and let's get Twitch in there as well, while we're at it) working with content creators to push for legal change. To me, that's what's most disappointing: Google will spend millions on lobbying to legally collect more and more information about me; but, they don't have the inclination to use their size and scale to push a significant expansion of Fair Use Doctrine (or, if th…

It was out of self interest of course, but, Google did just finish a decade long, costing probably hundreds of millions of dollars in legal fees, battle with Oracle to fight for reasonable copyright interpretation for software developers.

This current situation on YT is the result of another multi-billion dollar legal fight with the music industry. I don't like how YT handles this either but I put most of the blame on the music industry for it.

Re: Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

#399

Post by DreamScatter »

yesenadam wrote: post #294
yesenadam wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not an expert, but I've been learning a lil about this lately. Royalties for performances of someone else's song are paid to the writers of the words and the music. The melody and words can be copyrighted, not the chords or style. So you can use the chords of an existing song and give it new melody and words, and it is your own song. Style has nothing to do it. I love this quote from the classic The Manual: How To Ha…

I'd love to know if (the downvoters think) that has factual errors. I'm a jazz musician who will soon be releasing music online—some my compositions, some not—and planning to pay license fees etc. Thanks—I'm a totally at a loss what could have made people downvote it!

I think the problem with that post is that race (black and white people) are unnecessarily brought into it. I'm sure that musicians of all races would want this issue addressed. Making it about race is extremely ridiculous.

Re: Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

#400

Post by tcgmu »

raarts wrote: post #393

In ten, maybe twenty years I predict storage and cpu will be so cheap that everyone can just host their own data in their own router, and provide some universal API to it. Many problems solved, including privacy.

We've already had the capability to do this for many years. See Napster or BitTorrent.

The thorny issue is that legitimate copyright holders lose out when anyone can freely host and share their work. That leads to discussions about whether there should be copyright at all, whether digital creators have a right to charge for their work, etc. Those are the problems that need to be solved, not the technical issues.

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