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Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

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Re: Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

#381

Post by burkaman »

ajross wrote: post #367
bcrescimanno wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with your assessment of Google; however, what is a reasonable alternative for a content creator who wants to publish their videos and be able to build an audience? You kinda have to go where the audience will be if you don't already have one and I'm not aware of any video discovery platforms with anywhere near the reach of YouTube. I've managed to get out of Google products almost entirely--YouTube remains th…

> however, what is a reasonable alternative for a content creator who wants to publish their videos and be able to build an audience? I think it's more instructive to look at it from the other side. What's the reasonable alternative for a video hosting service to doing this kind of policing? Remember it's not really an option to just throw video over the fence, DMCA requirements mean you have to be responsive. And th…

The alternative is to responsibly scale your service. If your platform is so big that it can only be moderated by algorithms, and the algorithms don't work, then it's too big. Scale down until, at the very least, you can hire enough humans to review complaints when the algorithm does something wrong. Even better would be to have a human review every flagged violation to confirm it.

Obviously, hiring humans is expensive, and nobody is forcing them to do it, but that doesn't make it an unreasonable alternative. I consider it unreasonable to design an unethical system with the sole excuse that it makes more money that way.

Re: Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

#382

Post by ajross »

burkaman wrote: post #381
ajross wrote: post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> however, what is a reasonable alternative for a content creator who wants to publish their videos and be able to build an audience? I think it's more instructive to look at it from the other side. What's the reasonable alternative for a video hosting service to doing this kind of policing? Remember it's not really an option to just throw video over the fence, DMCA requirements mean you have to be responsive. And th…

The alternative is to responsibly scale your service. If your platform is so big that it can only be moderated by algorithms, and the algorithms don't work, then it's too big. Scale down until, at the very least, you can hire enough humans to review complaints when the algorithm does something wrong. Even better would be to have a human review every flagged violation to confirm it. Obviously, hiring humans is expensi…

So... which providers have responsibly scaled, in your opinion? All we have are tiny hosts (mostly porn) running by the seat of their pants and occasionally disappearing in a conflagration of lawsuits, and big folks like TikTok and Google and Facebook with draconian preemptive enforcement of various forms.

I think that argues strongly that the service you want to see is "unreasonable" given the regulation regime we have. You can't put this on the hosts, you'll just be disappointed. Call your representative.

Re: Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

#383

Post by jMyles »

bmn__ wrote: post #312
jMyles wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems that this entire fiasco can be fixed by simply having a media streaming platform which is hosted in a jurisdiction which doesn't recognize 'intellectual' property. Why has no such thing emerged?

Such a jurisdiction does not exist. See Berne Convention, Rome Convention/PPPPBO, TRIPS, WCT, WPPT.

Well, presumably one will emerge at some point.

I'm just trying to look at the root problem here and how to overcome it.

Re: Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

#384

Post by gonehome »

bcrescimanno wrote: post #274
blacklight wrote: post #262

I've already stated this many times, I'll state it again. Get your shit out of YouTube and any other Google product. Google is a dumb, faceless, fully automated company only interested in extracting as much data as possible from its users, force them to swallow as many ads as possible, all without caring about listening to them (both consumers and creators), under the faulty assumption that they're too big for users…

I agree with your assessment of Google; however, what is a reasonable alternative for a content creator who wants to publish their videos and be able to build an audience? You kinda have to go where the audience will be if you don't already have one and I'm not aware of any video discovery platforms with anywhere near the reach of YouTube. I've managed to get out of Google products almost entirely--YouTube remains th…

Yeah - agreed.

If I was a creator I’d use YouTube, but also have backed up local copies of videos. Preferably hosted elsewhere in case the channel gets in trouble too.

You have to be where the users are and YouTube is by far the best video streaming service (with the largest audience).

Re: Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

#385

Post by lurquer »

YouTube is an advertising company. Period.

The problem won’t be fixed as it’s not a problem... who cares if some piano teacher gets silenced? It matters not one iota to the revenue.

You could ban 10% of ‘content creators’ and it wouldn’t matter: people watch YouTube like they used to watch TV: it doesn’t matter what’s on or how crappy it is. You’ll keep watching. Your favorite show got cancelled? You’ll grouse and watch something else... your consumption of pharmaceutical and insurance ads will not be affected at all.

There will be no competitor emerge in this medium... just as no ‘competitor’ ever emerged in the established newspaper domain.

There may be a new medium that emerges that nukes YouTube. Can’t imagine what it would be.

Re: Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

#386

Post by fsflover »

bcrescimanno wrote: post #378
fsflover wrote: post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> however, what is a reasonable alternative for a content creator who wants to publish their videos and be able to build an audience? Put your videos on Youtube and PeerTube.

I'd honestly never heard of PeerTube so I searched it. Ah, they have a "about peertube" video! Should be great! In the first 30 seconds of the video, there were 1-3s long hiccups 4 times. Not exactly a confidence-inspiring start. After figuring out how to find more videos, I tried to play some--but, experienced more hiccups or load times from 20s to a full minute--and some just flat out didn't play at all. I'm not sa…

> 1-3s long hiccups 4 times

PeerTube is not one single website. It is a decentralized platform, where everyone can set up their own server and it will work as a part of the whole system (like emails work). This is why it will never be owned by a single entity like Google.

You probably chose a slow server. It does not mean that the whole PeerTube is slow.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PeerTube

Re: Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

#387

Post by mustacheemperor »

blacklight wrote: post #262

I've already stated this many times, I'll state it again. Get your shit out of YouTube and any other Google product. Google is a dumb, faceless, fully automated company only interested in extracting as much data as possible from its users, force them to swallow as many ads as possible, all without caring about listening to them (both consumers and creators), under the faulty assumption that they're too big for users…

Genuine question, what should I replace Firebase with? I have a responsibility to my customers there, not just myself. I want to fulfill that responsibility by migrating off of Google while continuing to provide the product performance they expect.

Re: Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

#388

Post by DreamScatter »

IshKebab wrote: post #234
DreamScatter wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

no, the mp3 codec actually deletes humanly inaudible portions of the frequency spectrum to reduce storage, this data isn't recoverd or replaced or referred when played back again, it's lost information. what is removed is based on human perception limits for audio

He is referring to modern codecs, not MP3. MP3 isn't widely used anymore. Modern codecs don't encode noise - they remove it during decoding and then add back artificial "comfort noise" when decoding, e.g. for film grain or background noise in voice calls.

You haven't named any lossy stream codecs that do restore white noise, so i will not consider you a reliable source of info.

Re: Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

#389

Post by ncallaway »

maweki wrote: post #218
chrismorgan wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every time that I’m speaking of it was the melody that was being claimed, not a specific recording.

I understand that that is what was claimed. I said that two actual and copyrightable performances of the same melody are arguably indistinguishable. Edit: How would an automated system know, that you did not just non-transformatively alter another person's performance, instead of performing yourself?

> How would an automated system know, that you did not just non-transformatively alter another person's performance, instead of performing yourself?

Yes, exactly. You have really nailed the problem with the current system.

Google chose to build an automated system. That was a choice, not an immutable fact. Google chose not to have a human arbitration process. Another choice. Google chooses not to punish the claimants that abuse the system. Another choice, not an immutable fact.

People aren't saying there must be a perfect automated system. People are saying Google has chosen to employ an automated system that does not meet the actual needs.

The criticism is for Google choosing to exclusively use an automated system, which can never successfully perform this task.

Re: Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

#390

Post by bcrescimanno »

fsflover wrote: post #386
bcrescimanno wrote: post #378

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd honestly never heard of PeerTube so I searched it. Ah, they have a "about peertube" video! Should be great! In the first 30 seconds of the video, there were 1-3s long hiccups 4 times. Not exactly a confidence-inspiring start. After figuring out how to find more videos, I tried to play some--but, experienced more hiccups or load times from 20s to a full minute--and some just flat out didn't play at all. I'm not sa…

> 1-3s long hiccups 4 times PeerTube is not one single website. It is a decentralized platform, where everyone can set up their own server and it will work as a part of the whole system (like emails work). This is why it will never be owned by a single entity like Google. You probably chose a slow server. It does not mean that the whole PeerTube is slow. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PeerTube

As stated above, I watched the promotional video from PeerTube themselves on the JoinPeertube.org website and experienced multiple hiccups in under 30s. If their own hosting isn't cutting it, what chance does anyone else have?

> You probably chose a slow server.

I didn't choose a server. I chose a video. The moment the service asks me to think about what server is hosting it is the moment I don't care enough to jump through those hoops. Never underestimate the value of a consistent experience.

Once again, I don't want to be disparaging to PeerTube--it's a cool concept and I understand the foundations behind it. But, spending 10 minutes with it earlier today made it obvious that it's not going to challenge YouTube as a content discovery platform.

Edit: Corrected the URL from "PeerTube.com" to "JoinPeertube.org" -- I typed "PeerTube.com" in haste and just assuming the URL.

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