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Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

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Re: Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

#341

Post by anigbrowl »

robbrown451 wrote: post #320
blacklight wrote: post #262

I've already stated this many times, I'll state it again. Get your shit out of YouTube and any other Google product. Google is a dumb, faceless, fully automated company only interested in extracting as much data as possible from its users, force them to swallow as many ads as possible, all without caring about listening to them (both consumers and creators), under the faulty assumption that they're too big for users…

And put your content where? What should this piano teacher do? This is partially the fault of YouTube/Google, but also copyright law in general. It's broken. This community, right here, could collaborate and force changes upon the powers that be. Boycotting Google and YouTube isn't going to do it though.

I hate copyright law and agree it's broken, but it's not at fault here. Compositions can be copyrighted, but obviously Beethoven's Moonlight Sonata is in the public domain and has been for a long time. Performances can be copyrighted, but obviously a performance isn't the same thing as a composition.

There's no legal grey area here. This is completely on Google/Youtube. Why isn't there a way to assert the copyright status when uploading, beyond saying you ownt he copyright or not? The answer would seem to be that it would take some work on the company's part, and they don't want to put it in because it's unlikely to yield any additional revenue and the occasional bit of bad publicity doesn't hurt them enough.

Re: Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

#342

Post by bskap »

Swenrekcah wrote: post #328
tom-_- wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a content creator, you want the platform to protect your copyright and at YouTube's scale, copyright scanners are the only way to implement this. Will they produce false positives? Of course. Do the benefits to content creators outweigh the costs of these false positives? Yes if you believe creative content should be protected. The only other viable model for content creators are subscription based services like P…

Like some have suggested, the automated system should only be an input for a team of humans to then review and consider. They should then contact the potentially breaching party and get some feedback as well as doing some due diligence to check if the complaint came from a proper right holder. Yes this costs money but it is the only way to do the job without being a scumbag and a general burden on the world. Furtherm…

That's all great in theory, but current US copyright law isn't really in favor of implementing any of that. If Google tried to do it, they'd likely get flooded with massive lawsuits from the media conglomerates because they'd lose the DMCA safe harbor.

Re: Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

#343

Post by CRConrad »

crescentfresh wrote: post #238
daedalus_f wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Wikka Moonlight" seems to be the name of the audio the copyright claim is originating from rather than the organisation claiming the copyright. [1] The audio contains a recording of Moonlight Sonata with a load of added reverb. The uploading channel is "Alice Violet Molland - Topic". The "Topic" bit generally gets added to a channel name when a music distributer (like DistroKid [2]) publishes music to youtube on beh…

> The uploading channel is "Alice Violet Molland - Topic" I went searching around using that info and came across a (similarly outraged) thread on google's support forums about this video, in which someone named longzijun seemed to make a reasonably sound counter-argument: https://support.google.com/youtube/thread/108213944/a-posted... > Then she files a counter-notification. The appeals process has not been complete…

That poster may be right on this particular issue... But it's hard to take them seriously after umpteen posts where they go on yammering about "If someone posts a recording of someone's performance" after repeatedly being told that the lady posted her own performance, and repeatedly asking someone else whether they are that poster, which AFAICS has fuck-all to do with anything.

Re: Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

#344

Post by anigbrowl »

fsflover wrote: post #323
mikenew wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> under the faulty assumption that they're too big for users and consumers to live without them It is, unfortunately, not a faulty assumption. I'm a piano teacher on YouTube, and I'm able to make money there. My entire audience was developed through the platform. I put videos on platforms like Vimeo or even Peertube, and I've had more views in one day on YouTube than their entire lifetime on those other platforms com…

Any creator with established audience can bring those people to alternative platform, e.g., Peertube. Start from posting videos on both platforms and advertise the other one. Then post videos on Peertube earlier .

Any creator with established audience

Well yeah, once you're already successful you have more options. That's absolutely no help to people who do not have a paying audience.

Re: Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

#345

Post by guggle »

leephillips wrote: post #194
falcolas wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That knowledge is an entire career's worth of knowledge. Sure, almost anyone could pick it up, but it's more cost effective for them to rely on others to do it for them. For a musician, the learning and upkeep is a lot of time that would better be spent creating; making a living.

I don’t disagree. But that’s the tradeoff I’m talking about. Letting others do it for you means giving up control; the limiting case is being abused by YouTube. If you have money, you can hire people to do this for you. But most people can’t afford to hire their own “engineers”. These are the choices.

Indeed. Convienience vs. freedom. Ignorance vs. knowledge.

Way to go...

Re: Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

#346

Post by anigbrowl »

tom-_- wrote: post #291
blacklight wrote: post #262

I've already stated this many times, I'll state it again. Get your shit out of YouTube and any other Google product. Google is a dumb, faceless, fully automated company only interested in extracting as much data as possible from its users, force them to swallow as many ads as possible, all without caring about listening to them (both consumers and creators), under the faulty assumption that they're too big for users…

As a content creator, you want the platform to protect your copyright and at YouTube's scale, copyright scanners are the only way to implement this. Will they produce false positives? Of course. Do the benefits to content creators outweigh the costs of these false positives? Yes if you believe creative content should be protected. The only other viable model for content creators are subscription based services like P…

But the difference between composition and performance is well delineated in copyright law. What technical barrier is preventing Google from setting up scanners to detect similarity, get a hit, and then identify a video as a performance of 'Moonlight Sonata', look that up, and OK it on the basis that everything written by Beethoven is long out of copyright?

Re: Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

#347

Post by livre »

josteink wrote: post #339
robbrown451 wrote: post #320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And put your content where? What should this piano teacher do? This is partially the fault of YouTube/Google, but also copyright law in general. It's broken. This community, right here, could collaborate and force changes upon the powers that be. Boycotting Google and YouTube isn't going to do it though.

> And put your content where? Vimeo? Peertube? Facebook? Self hosted website? Anywhere?

You can put your content anywhere you want but you can't choose where the audience is. YouTube is in practice a big monopoly because there's no audience in the "alternatives." If you want to be seen you have no choice but YouTube, you can prepare for the worst and upload simultaneously to other platforms and include links in your video description but you can't avoid YouTube.

Re: Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

#348

Post by Swenrekcah »

bskap wrote: post #342
Swenrekcah wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like some have suggested, the automated system should only be an input for a team of humans to then review and consider. They should then contact the potentially breaching party and get some feedback as well as doing some due diligence to check if the complaint came from a proper right holder. Yes this costs money but it is the only way to do the job without being a scumbag and a general burden on the world. Furtherm…

That's all great in theory, but current US copyright law isn't really in favor of implementing any of that. If Google tried to do it, they'd likely get flooded with massive lawsuits from the media conglomerates because they'd lose the DMCA safe harbor.

No doubt you’re right. In that case the copyright laws are wrong and should be fixed.

I apologise and transfer my scumbag stamp from google to Congress then for this particular case :)

Re: Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

#349

Post by solipsism »

visarga wrote: post #307
RogerL wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are not allowed to create derivative works from another person's creation, regardless of whether you are making money from it. You can't go and make a Shrek III flick, for example, or write a book set in the Harry Potter universe. Likewise, you can't adapt music from a film (IANAL, there are things like fair use, but in general this holds). https://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ14.pdf

> You are not allowed to create (free) derivative works I think putting such constraints on creative work is a cultural disaster.

Then your beef is with the United States, not with Google.

Re: Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

#350

Post by CRConrad »

eru wrote: post #137
bitcharmer wrote: post #2

She actually decided to quit YouTube after this completely unfair treatment. I think it's high time these platforms saw some regulation. It's ridiculous what they are allowed to get away with.

You know that Google's behaviour here is a reaction to regulation? It's tempting to answer failures in regulation with cries for more regulation..

This seems more a failure in Google's reaction than in the legislation they're reacting to.
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