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EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

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Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#731

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure . the free market with only 2 players that were caught in the past colluding to do illegal shit https://www.latimes.com/business/technology/la-fi-tn-tech-jo... , they would never collude to non compete on the Store tax or offering "transfer" services .

Again, no one is making Spotify use apple. They don't have too. They choose to because they ll make money. They just want to make more money by going to court and demanding a cheaper service. Why should apple have to, just because they happen to be in the same business?

Nobody forces Apple to sell in EU, they follow China rules so they should follow EU rules too.

Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#732

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> China has the great firewall. I'm not an expert on it, but I assume whether Apple allows alternative app stores is entirely beside the point of whether people in HK would be able to download and use a networked app. The HKMap.live situation happened before the Chinese Firewall was in place in Hong Kong (2019), so that's really not an excuse. Regardless, the great firewall doesn't necessarily prevent person-to-perso…

I'm not here to argue on the fine points of China policy or human rights. I just don't think it's fair to conflate the decisions one company makes towards what it thinks are good for engineering or business with every possible outcome of those decisions or how others can exploit them. Similarly, I don't accept arguments against socialism because of the trainwrecks from the past that have claimed to be socialist. And…

> I just don't think it's fair to conflate the decisions one company makes towards what it thinks are good for engineering or business with every possible outcome of those decisions or how others can exploit them.

If the consequences of the decisions a company makes aren't a good metric for whether they are good decisions or not, then what is? We're talking about the largest company on Earth that often has a larger effect on the world than many countries do, and you want to take "outcomes" off the table for argument?

> I'm not here to argue on the fine points of China policy or human rights.

Oh, I'm aware, as you seem more than willing to throw out anachronistic arguments (like using the Chinese Firewall as an excuse before it was in place), and then immediately try to change the subject when it's clear you're out of your depth.

> And yes, when presented with a wall of text consisting of mostly emotional arguments talking past my points, I started skimming.

I'm not sure how you can know it's emotional when you've admitted to not having read it. I'm also perplexed as to why you bother responding if you aren't willing to read what you're responding to. It's like writing a review for a movie you haven't seen, it's not going to be a good review.

*> Finally, you really shouldn't stoop to ad-hominem [...] Try to be less sanctimonious."

Some would argue that blanket describing an entire post that someone invested time in writing as "emotional" to the point of not needing to be read is a fairly bold and "sanctimonious" value-judgement. I at least take the time to read your responses before drawing any conclusions.

Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#733
post #727
post #724

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Restaurants sell a bundled experience. The use of their silverware is part of what I buy. You could argue that the restaurant shouldn’t be a gatekeeper. Other parties could let me enjoy a cheaper meal, competing to offer the most discounted silverware. My $10 burger could be $9 if I could rent a paper plate from a third party and eat on the floor. After all, the restaurant shouldn’t abuse it’s monopoly, right?

It doesn't have a monopoly. Now if one restaurant chain controlled 50% of the market, suddenly you've got good reason to treat them as a platform and regulate them accordingly.

Once I’m in he restaurant, it has a monopoly. The same way Apple has a monopoly once I’m in the App Store.

Apple is the only seller of apps on my Apple phone.

Burger King is the only seller/provider of plates and cutlery at my local Burger King.

Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#734

I wish one of the outcome would be to allow better web browsers than Safari on iOS.

Web ( Chrome ) developers often go on and on about this, but I have yet to hear a single layman user complain about their iOS version of Chrome missing the ability to have the random news websites they’ve followed from Facebook send them native notifications, take up the entire viewport, or be “installed” to their home screen.

As a user I really value having a good ad blocker integrated with my mobile browser.

Safari is okay at ad blocking but it can't do nearly as much as Firefox Mobile with uBlock, and Apple doesn't seem at all interested in improving it.

Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#735

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recently had a change of heart on this issue when the prevalence of fraudulent apps on the App Store was documented[1]. It's hard to argue that Apple is providing significant benefit to either consumers or developers for their 30% cut when they seem incapable of reigning in obvious fraud. In addition, I think Apple pushing subscriptions as a solution for long term app funding (instead of upgrade pricing or other op…

> Overall, Apple has not been a good steward of the App Store. But the question on my mind is: what precedent are we setting by legally mandating what a corporation can do on a platform they solely built? And are we pulling up the ladder after the incumbents have climbed it? It's one thing to mandate how much pollution a factory may leak into a shared water supply. But the Apple app store is not a utility or natural…

Microsoft also solely built Windows and the EU still forced them to introduce the browser selection screen. No new precedent here.

Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#736

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd argue that their cost scales to the price paid because credit card processors are taking on the liability for those transactions. Additionally, a 2% fee is nearly inconsequential. If Mastercard and Visa demanded 30%, there would be literal riots.

And yet interchange rates in Europe are capped at around 0.2%. 2% is still a lot of money.

It does stack up, but if the cost was too high, many businesses wouldn't work with the credit processors. Amex is an example of this. There's payment options that avoid this retailers could incentivize.

And Apple and Google charge 15 times that because there's no way around them.

Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#737
post #718

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't seem worth it.

That summarizes exactly why I hope this type of legislation doesn’t work out. Today I can trust that any apps I download will use APNS or nothing. Alternatively, a horror show of cheap and broken push implementations from developers who want to save a dime. Consumers would suffer a thousand cuts and the value of the platform would plummet, eventually hurting developers more.

Then Apple can lower the cost and developers won't have to switch to save a dime. Then Apple can keep their platform value.

Alternatives means competition. Keeping the value of their platform up is no excuse for anti-competitive practices.

Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#738
post #527
post #391

Lots of comments around the line of "ok maybe 30% is too much, but we can all agree they offer a valuable service, so what percentage should they take ?" Uhhhh, not a percentage ? Do you imagine AWS billing you a % of your revenue instead of a given price for a given service ? Give a price to be listed in store, to be reviewed, to be downloaded by a user, ... And let company pay what they owe you. Let them pay throug…

> Uhhhh, not a percentage ? Do you imagine AWS billing you a % of your revenue instead of a given price for a given service ? ... > It's ridiculous that it doesn't matter if my app has a 5$ sub or a 50$ sub, I owe them 30% anyway. What they provided is the same in both cases, they should be able to price it out to me. Their current pricing structure is not setup like a fee for services and infrastructure usage, it's…

> Uhhhh, not a percentage ? Do you imagine AWS billing you a % of your revenue instead of a given price for a given service ?

> ...

Please just say what you think and not "..."

Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#739

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not here to argue on the fine points of China policy or human rights. I just don't think it's fair to conflate the decisions one company makes towards what it thinks are good for engineering or business with every possible outcome of those decisions or how others can exploit them. Similarly, I don't accept arguments against socialism because of the trainwrecks from the past that have claimed to be socialist. And…

> I just don't think it's fair to conflate the decisions one company makes towards what it thinks are good for engineering or business with every possible outcome of those decisions or how others can exploit them. If the consequences of the decisions a company makes aren't a good metric for whether they are good decisions or not, then what is? We're talking about the largest company on Earth that often has a larger e…

> Oh, I'm aware, as you seem more than willing to throw out anachronistic arguments (like using the Chinese Firewall as an excuse before it was in place), and then immediately try to change the subject when it's clear you're out of your depth.

You were correct, and you seem to know much more about history than I do. All I can do is learn, but again, we aren't here to talk about the timeline of the HK protests. You may have a valid point bringing it up with Apple's pull on the world, but that's not the whole picture. That's all I was trying to say.

> I'm not sure how you can know it's emotional when you've admitted to not having read it

I read a lot of it but after the third time seeing you mention a detail I'd already told you wasn't relevant, yeah, I stopped trying so hard.

Hopefully you trust me when I say I've read everything else you've written, not sure how you think I could keep replying to your quotes otherwise.

> Some would argue that blanket describing an entire post that someone invested time in writing as "emotional" to the point of not needing to be read is a fairly bold and "sanctimonious" value-judgement

Not the same thing as what you were trying to do at all. You tried to pigeonhole me into some class of person in order to undercut my arguments. I merely pointed out that you were letting your emotions run away with your arguments... indeed, you did talk by my point, multiple times.

Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#740
post #733
post #727

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't have a monopoly. Now if one restaurant chain controlled 50% of the market, suddenly you've got good reason to treat them as a platform and regulate them accordingly.

Once I’m in he restaurant, it has a monopoly. The same way Apple has a monopoly once I’m in the App Store. Apple is the only seller of apps on my Apple phone. Burger King is the only seller/provider of plates and cutlery at my local Burger King.

The difference is, if you don't like it you can leave the restaurant and choose any other. You have no lock in. Once you've bought an iOS device, you can't buy apps anywhere else.

Even if you forget the sunk cost you just have two providers to choose from.

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