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EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

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Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#351

Post by cafed00d »

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #223
slver wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's take a step and ponder wouldn't you find it bizarre to have this sequence of events: 1. Apple creates iPod, and iTunes serves as its music store. 2. Apple creates iPhone, which has an iPod app. 3. Apple introduces App Store so other apps can be used on the iPhone. 4. iPod (Apple Music) competitors emerge. 5. EU says "that's it, Apple can't have iPod anymore on the phone unless iPod (Apple Music) becomes a separ…

Apple didn't invent music players, nor appstores, nor smartphones, nor digital music or music streaming. The entire argument is a red herring. But even if we take this absurd argument at face value, it's still wrong: third party applications add value to iPhone and make them worth bying. If you could not install games, bank app, etc. On an iphone, iPhones would be useless and noone would buy them in the face of compe…

Third party apps have been dominant on PCs and Macs on the open web for a decade prior to the iPhone. Third party apps such as FB.Connor even Spotify.com still run on the iPhone built on HTML5. Of course, I will concede that the desktop publishing industry and the banking, finance, spreadsheet industries benefited from native computer apps in the decades prior to that.

Counter to the narrative of Windows phone’s failure, why were BlackBerry and Nokia successful despite not having third party apps at the scale iPhone does?

Third party apps add value to the iPhone — you’re right. They can also add confusion, adware, and bundleware if allowed to reign free; a curated, expensive gatekeeper is the cheap way to keep the crappy third party apps out; not a foolproof way, just a cheap way.

Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#352

Post by 300africans »

Many people support apple in questioning the business model of Facebook on cross app/site tracking. I think she this is my opinion that apple should not be allowed to put themselves without recourse between businesses and the customers. The customer should always have a choice.

Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#353

Post by Method-X »

adriancooney wrote: post #240
ocdtrekkie wrote: post #46

Since this is an EU case, that should mean it'll actually do something, and won't take a decade and a half to conclude. The penalty won't be the big deal here, it'll be what Apple is prohibited from doing. And it'll be really exciting if the precedent set blows back on the entire 30%-rent-seeking-platform-industry.

Is it fair to call Apple's platform rent-seeking? I think a 30% cut is certainly far too much but I wouldn't call it rent-seeking. The platform itself provides a lot of value and they are entitled to charge something for it.

I agree. There is a lot of value in discovery. Just being on the App Store puts software in front of peoples eyeballs who otherwise may not ever know it exists. Is discovery worth 30%? I honestly don't know, but it's worth something.

Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#354

Post by ethbr0 »

breakfastduck wrote: post #196
zibzab wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Should add, the ruling is not really about the validity of the 30% fee. What EU seems to argue is this: 1. Apple is in phone business, Spotify music. So far so good... 2. Then apple wants to get into the music business too. Now they have an unfair advantage since Spotify must pay 30% to apple while apple music "pays" 0%. So apple use their dominance in one area (phones) to get an advantage in a totally different area…

Apple have been in the music business much longer than Spotify.

> Apple have been in the music business much longer than Spotify

Since 1968 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Records

Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#355

Post by echelon »

breakfastduck wrote: post #196
zibzab wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Should add, the ruling is not really about the validity of the 30% fee. What EU seems to argue is this: 1. Apple is in phone business, Spotify music. So far so good... 2. Then apple wants to get into the music business too. Now they have an unfair advantage since Spotify must pay 30% to apple while apple music "pays" 0%. So apple use their dominance in one area (phones) to get an advantage in a totally different area…

Apple have been in the music business much longer than Spotify.

Apple is now a monopoly.

They shouldn't be allowed to run an App Store, and they should probably have their services division peeled away into a separate company.

All of the mega tech monopolies need to be broken up. What business do any of them have being movie studios, advertising firms, car dealerships (Apple?), banks, and fifteen different marketplaces rolled into one? This is absurd.

Tech would be better if neither Apple nor Google ran their app stores, Amazon/Apple/Google weren't in the media business, and Google couldn't run a browser.

Break them up.

Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#357

Post by cblconfederate »

trapped wrote: post #342

Why doesn't EU force European automakers with same laws? Users need to pay extra to even use freely provided Apple CarPlay on BMW. European Car makers have monopoly in the app ecosystem installed in the cars. Where is alternative App store for BMW, Benz, Audi, VW ?

is there an app ecosystem in cars?

Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#358

Post by codys »

moffatman wrote: post #326
MichaelApproved wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s good for internal bookkeeping but it’s not enough to prevent the unfair advantage. Take this example: Apple Music “pays” 30% to parent Apple Corp. That 30% payment cuts into Music’s revenue and now they’re operating at a 25% loss. However, that rough calculation still allows parent Apple Corp to consider Music to be profitable, since it’s a net profit for Apple Corp. It’s happy to take the 25% “loss” in the mu…

I don't think you considered the loss of the 30% from each apple music customer's previous subscription to a competitor. There's no unfair advantage, the maximum profit apple can make by switching a customer away from spotify is spotify's profit.

This assertion ignores that apple makes a profit off the 30% cut. In other words: it doesn't correspond to a real cost to Apple.

Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#359

Post by vorpalhex »

saurik wrote: post #230
endisneigh wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t understand why people say it’s a general computing device. It’s clearly not nor has it been advertised as such. If it actually was a general computing device you could just install an entirely different operating system onto it. If Apple allowed users to install Android on iPhones but didn’t change iOS would that be an acceptable solution? If so, what’s stopping someone from just getting an Android device now…

Most Android devices--and certainly all the good ones--are almost as locked down as iOS: Android has a bit more extensibility points, and sideloading has fewer restrictions, but it isn't like an Android device is some open "run anything you want" playing field (hell: the original Android G1 needed a jailbreak!!); and, really, if you analyze that market carefully, Samsung pretty much owns it with like 95% of the profi…

The only thing between you and infinite control on most Android devices, including pixels, is repeatedly tapping the About entry in the menu.

Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#360

Post by [deleted] »

echelon wrote: post #355
breakfastduck wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple have been in the music business much longer than Spotify.

Apple is now a monopoly. They shouldn't be allowed to run an App Store, and they should probably have their services division peeled away into a separate company. All of the mega tech monopolies need to be broken up. What business do any of them have being movie studios, advertising firms, car dealerships (Apple?), banks, and fifteen different marketplaces rolled into one? This is absurd. Tech would be better if neit…

[deleted]
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