451–460 of 492 posts
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If you want to pick another bad example, consider "rice milk" in Asia. Not a dairy product.
Indeed. So introducing a dairy beverage called rice milk would cause unnecessary confusion. Yes?
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Well I must say that sounds like some peculiar logic to me! But hey, I spent years performing mental gymnastics to justify the suffering I contributed to by eating meat and dairy, so I can see where you are coming from ;) I used to love steak, and fish, and various other non-vegan things. But I became increasingly uncomfortable with the thought of where those things came from, and eventually I had to give them up. I…
> But hey, I spent years performing mental gymnastics to justify the suffering I contributed to by eating meat and dairy, so I can see where you are coming from ;) You can't. You have no idea where I come from. I never had to perform any mental gymnastics because I don't believe I contribute to any suffering by eating meat. For example, maybe you "come from" (to be literal) such a place as North America, Argentina, o…
I doubt it.
Curious to find out more about where you might be coming from, I took a look through some of your past comments. One in particular caught my eye:
> "I don't know how people can do that, slaughter an animal they've raised themselves."
To me this suggests that do have compassion for animals. This doesn't surprise me, because virtually everyone does. However, having compassion for animals just doesn't sit nicely with eating them, so we come up with reasons to justify that illogical behaviour of ours. Otherwise we would not be able to live with ourselves.
I am sure you do eat less meat than many people. But I bet that you would eat a lot less again if you had to personally slaughter all the animals you eat. Especially given how easy it is to not eat animals at all.
And in response to your last question, I think it's mainly just because it tastes good. Vegan meats and cheeses could quite reasonably be called something else, and I would still happily eat them. Though having them named as they are does make them more discoverable. I can see why that might make you annoyed if you are in the business of making and selling dairy cheese, and you see the rise of vegan alternatives as a threat to your business.
With all the anger you seem to have towards veganism I sense you may be closer to an awakening that most. Perhaps soon you will be making delicious vegan cheeses yourself :)
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Well I must say that sounds like some peculiar logic to me! But hey, I spent years performing mental gymnastics to justify the suffering I contributed to by eating meat and dairy, so I can see where you are coming from ;) I used to love steak, and fish, and various other non-vegan things. But I became increasingly uncomfortable with the thought of where those things came from, and eventually I had to give them up. I…
There is no hypocrisy in eating substitute products. The comment you're responding to is all over the place. Vegans can't eat substitute products because it goes against non-vegan's morals? I have no idea how one would arrive at such a place without some major projecting. In any case, the last sentence about people eating MORE meat because I enjoy vegan cheese is just bonkers and kind of sums up nicely what mindset t…
I'm not sure where you live but in the UK we have something called This Isn't Bacon that I find rather delicious :)
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Ha. Even the current packaging isn't that hot. Leave it to Wal-Mart to screw that up. I bet they were so focused on sticking to the "Great Value" graphic design manual that they ended up deciding that clearly conveying all the critical information on the label would have ruined their branding consistency. For what it's worth, I can tell just by the ingredients label that that stuff is gross. Potato starch, coconut oi…
What are “natural” flavors derived from?
The term natural flavor or natural flavoring means the essential oil, oleoresin, essence or extractive, protein hydrolysate, distillate, or any product of roasting, heating or enzymolysis, which contains the flavoring constituents derived from a spice, fruit or fruit juice, vegetable or vegetable juice, edible yeast, herb, bark, bud, root, leaf or similar plant material, meat, seafood, poultry, eggs, dairy products, or fermentation products thereof, whose significant function in food is flavoring rather than nutritional.
(https://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/cdrh/cfdocs/cfcfr/cfr...)
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It's a slow Friday and I just read all your comments. In short: Yes. I do think it's okay to make that assumption.
Well, I don't make any assumptions about your state of mind. You should learn to do the same. It will make you a better internet citizen. I mean, you disagree with me so I must be worked up about what you say? What can I reply to that? There's only one way discussion quality can go after that, and that is down the drain. Not to mention the casual sexism inherent in that kind of comment to users with clearly feminine…
In any case, I didn't even state that you were worked up, I honestly wanted to know if the semantics was your only beef (lol). However, I can see how that may have come across as provocative and for that I apologize.
Nonetheless, I stand by what I said and I think you are indeed worked up. Hell, I'm worked up after this nonsensical back and forth. That's my assumption based on the amount of various emotions you put into your comments.
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There is no hypocrisy in eating substitute products. The comment you're responding to is all over the place. Vegans can't eat substitute products because it goes against non-vegan's morals? I have no idea how one would arrive at such a place without some major projecting. In any case, the last sentence about people eating MORE meat because I enjoy vegan cheese is just bonkers and kind of sums up nicely what mindset t…
I agree! I'm not sure where you live but in the UK we have something called This Isn't Bacon that I find rather delicious :)
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> and I gave you actual "almond milk" What makes that the actual version? Almond milk as an animal milk substitute made from almonds dates back to the 1300s[0]. It's not new. I hear where you're coming from, but I also question what does and doesn't count as an "authentic" name, and I suspect a lot of it comes down to people thinking that the names they used growing up or the names they ran into first are the "real"…
> What makes that the actual version? That it's milk with almond. Like "chocolate milk" is milk with chocolate and "milk coffee" is coffee with milk.
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I agree! I'm not sure where you live but in the UK we have something called This Isn't Bacon that I find rather delicious :)
Too bad, I'm from Germany! I appreciate the tip though :) I also love that product's name and how well it fits into the discussion as a whole :D
In the UK recently we just keep getting more and more new vegan substitutes, and vegan options in restaurants. It's an exciting time!
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> and I gave you actual "almond milk" What makes that the actual version? Almond milk as an animal milk substitute made from almonds dates back to the 1300s[0]. It's not new. I hear where you're coming from, but I also question what does and doesn't count as an "authentic" name, and I suspect a lot of it comes down to people thinking that the names they used growing up or the names they ran into first are the "real"…
Almond sherbet is the sherbet itself, not the milk drink, but I take the point. And I guess almond milk wasn't the best example to focus on, but I was referring more generally to the trend of intentional misnaming that I have observed. So, e.g., given your 'quacks like a duck' theory, I could happily cook a "mushroom risotto" with mushroomy chicken instead of actual mushroom, and that would still be a perfectly fine…
> Except serving that to a vegan claiming it's a "mushroom risotto" would probably make me an ass
To be clear, the jerk part here would be serving non-vegan food to a vegan, not the name. If you made a mushroom risotto and slathered butter over it, it would be just as much of a jerk move. This is actually something that comes up a lot with vegan food, it's why we need to read labels. There are multiple artificial meats that are made with milk and eggs and are vegetarian friendly but not vegan friendly. It's rarely safe to assume something is vegan just because vegetables are the primary ingredient or because it's "plant-based".
If you want to think of it from another perspective, I would say the same thing is true of allergens. If you made a mushroom risotto and incorporated a peanut sauce or glaze, I don't have an issue with you calling it a mushroom risotto, I don't think anything fundamental has changed about the food. But it would definitely be a jerk move (and potentially negligent homicide) to feed it to someone you knew had a peanut allergy, and you would need to make sure that if you sold it in a store that it showed peanuts prominently in the ingredients.
> intended to produce confusion and blur the definitions for the purpose of marketing
I don't particularly care about marketing purposes, I don't think the term "almond milk" is any more deceptive than the term "turkey pepperoni" or "black bean brownies". And I do not believe that when the meat industry lobbies to get stuff renamed to "almond juice", they're doing it out of concern for confusion, they just want to create certain connotations in the exact same way that vegan companies want to do.
But if you wanted legislation that required food to clearly indicate whether or not it contained animal products, it would make my life a great deal easier, I would be able to stop reading individual ingredients to find out whether or not a loaf of bread was vegan.
Right now you can indicate whether a food is vegan/vegetarian, and many products that are marketing to vegans do, especially imitation meats and plant based cheese/milk/butter which I've found to be pretty prominent. But there's no requirement to do so, and many animal products (esp less 'palatable' ingredients like shellac) are allowed to be listed in ingredient lists with no other information at all. I often have to not just read ingredients but look up new terms that I'm unfamiliar with on my phone. Some ingredients don't even have a clear answer, they might be derived from animals or they might not be, and there's no obligation for food manufacturers to indicate which version they're using.
An easy way to solve this problem would be for labeling purposes to treat animal by-products and meat more like an allergen, require a line after the ingredients stating "contains ingredients derived from animals".
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Too bad, I'm from Germany! I appreciate the tip though :) I also love that product's name and how well it fits into the discussion as a whole :D
It is quite amusing in the context I must say :D In the UK recently we just keep getting more and more new vegan substitutes, and vegan options in restaurants. It's an exciting time!