Vegan cheese has quietly but steadily infiltrated mainstream supermarket shelves • Hacker News Board

Re: Vegan cheese has quietly but steadily infiltrated mainstream supermarket shelves

#301

Post by Djvacto » Thu, Apr 29, 2021, 11:14 PM UTC

willcipriano wrote: post #45

jjcon wrote: post #2

> Vegan Cheese Is Ready to Compete With Dairy. Is the World Ready to Eat It? I’m vegetarian and my partner is vegan - I’ve tried every vegan cheese on the shelf. The answer is no because it’s not even close to ready. It might pass an initial taste test where you say, that’s not so bad, but then you pick up on all the things it’s missing. Sometimes the aftertaste is terrible, sometimes the texture or versatility. Mayb…

Wanted to make pizza with my two year old daughter a couple of weeks ago. Picked up some mozzarella at the store and when I went to use it noticed the well hidden plant logo and "plant based" text that was almost the same color as the packaging. Figured I'd give it a shot. It was inedible, completely ruined the pizza. My daughter took a bite and said "no, dad" I agreed and we threw it away and got a happy meal. I fig…

Finding vegan cheeses that work well on pizza is a monumentally difficult task. Miyoko is one of few I've liked for pizza use. I generally don't eat much store bought vegan cheese as I don't love the Kraft singles-type ones my vegan wife has nostalgia for, and buying the nice vegan ones is usually pretty expensive.

Making homemade cashew cheese has pretty great results for vegan pizza. It's not the same as dairy, obviously, but it's a good main topping for when we share a pizza.

Re: Vegan cheese has quietly but steadily infiltrated mainstream supermarket shelves

#302

Post by tpoacher » Thu, Apr 29, 2021, 11:14 PM UTC

danShumway wrote: post #230

tpoacher wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't mind people calling something "vegan cheese" or "vegan milk" or "milk alternative" etc. But I do mind people calling it "cheese" or "milk" intentionally when it's a vegan alternative, revelling in the confusion, just to give the impression that they're interchangeable and it's really no big deal if you get the vegan version instead. Like, wtf is almond milk? When I was a kid, almond milk was super tasty, and…

> and I gave you actual "almond milk" What makes that the actual version? Almond milk as an animal milk substitute made from almonds dates back to the 1300s[0]. It's not new. I hear where you're coming from, but I also question what does and doesn't count as an "authentic" name, and I suspect a lot of it comes down to people thinking that the names they used growing up or the names they ran into first are the "real"…

Almond sherbet is the sherbet itself, not the milk drink, but I take the point. And I guess almond milk wasn't the best example to focus on, but I was referring more generally to the trend of intentional misnaming that I have observed.

So, e.g., given your 'quacks like a duck' theory, I could happily cook a "mushroom risotto" with mushroomy chicken instead of actual mushroom, and that would still be a perfectly fine mushroom risotto, right? Except serving that to a vegan claiming it's a "mushroom risotto" would probably make me an ass, and all linguistic subtleties of what constitutes 'mushroominess' in chicken would probably fly out the window.

Note I'm not arguing about what ingredients are substitutable for others and thus comparable. I'm arguing about naming, and specifically about naming intended to produce confusion and blur the definitions for the purpose of marketing. So while I partly agree with the 'quacks like a duck' thing, I think a big part of why it's fine to have non-dairy 'cheese', but not fine to have chicken-based 'mushrooms' comes down to which direction of duck-quacking feels more 'defendable' than what constitutes acceptable substitutes in terms of flavour.

Re: Vegan cheese has quietly but steadily infiltrated mainstream supermarket shelves

#303

Post by whimsicalism » Thu, Apr 29, 2021, 11:14 PM UTC

proc0 wrote: post #212

subculture wrote: post #136

There's certainly a trope of "...but I can't give up cheese" and as someone who went from vegetarian to vegan: Yeah, cheese is hard to replicate. But also: your body and tastes adapt. After a few weeks off of dairy our memories of those old textures and mouth feel start to fade and are replaced. Humans don't like changes in patterns, but at the same time are relatively quick to adapt to new ones. There's real addicti…

We have blood sausages, why wouldn't we drink some animals milk. Humans have been also eating entrails and brains for a long time, so milk is just another ingredient in the omnivorous diet of humans. You point out the for-profit incentives of dairy industry, but surely you don't think that it is much different for non-dairy/vegan products. Of course they are also pushing for same kind of acceptance at societal level,…

> for-profit incentives of dairy industry

The fact that demand for dairy was "manufactured" is somewhat orthogonal to whether or not it is for-profit.

Vegan cheeses aren't subsidized at 73 cents on the dollar, dairy is.

Re: Vegan cheese has quietly but steadily infiltrated mainstream supermarket shelves

#304

Post by whimsicalism » Thu, Apr 29, 2021, 11:15 PM UTC

csours wrote: post #228

tpoacher wrote: post #190

Pro tip when it comes to pasta / pizza. Forget about vegan cheeses on pizza/pasta. They taste crap. What tastes really good is ground nuts. I sprinkle a mixture of ground pine nuts, cashew nuts, and tiny bit of pecan, (-/+ possibly some macademia nuts) and it tastes great. When ground properly in the right proportions, this mixture also has that nice fluffy, "cheesy" feel to it (i.e. it's not rough to the touch, it's…

This is what I'm more interested in: Don't try to replace animal foods directly, create great plant based foods. I'm not vegan or even vegetarian, but I am interested in reducing my animal consumption.

I mean, ground nuts are a classic "replacement" for cheese, so I don't really see how this is at all different from what the vegan cheeses are doing.

Re: Vegan cheese has quietly but steadily infiltrated mainstream supermarket shelves

#305

Post by tpoacher » Thu, Apr 29, 2021, 11:17 PM UTC

cheese_goddess wrote: post #276

tpoacher wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, admittedly, I'm thinking in my native language, which is Greek, and where "almond milk" was basically milk mixed in with "Soumada" [1]. Whereas if you say "almond milk" now even in greek, it'll probably refer to the vegan stuff, and you'll have to literally say "milk with the taste of almond" for the other one. Soumada is very tasty, a bit like amaretto but without the alcohol. I haven't had it in years ... A s…

> Well, admittedly, I'm thinking in my native language, which is Greek, and where "almond milk" was basically milk mixed in with "Soumada" [1]. "Αμυγδαλόγαλα"; I confess I've never heard that word but maybe it's just an old word?

In Greek you don't tend to say that, you'd say Γάλα Αμύγδαλο instead (similarly Γάλα Σοκολάτα for chocolate milk, and Γάλα Τριαντάφυλλο for rose milk).

Re: Vegan cheese has quietly but steadily infiltrated mainstream supermarket shelves

#306

Post by whimsicalism » Thu, Apr 29, 2021, 11:17 PM UTC

anigbrowl wrote: post #66

autarch wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There's something unexpected about this aspect of veganism, which is often embraced by those wanting to lead a healthier lifestyle ... I'm not sure what you base this statement on. There are many people whose initial motivations for going vegan were ethical, either to avoid funding animal abuse, environmental degradation, or both. That was why I went vegan 23.5 years ago, and why I'm still vegan. I eat mock meat an…

I totally get ethical vegetarianism, and appreciate that much animal abuse can occur within the dairy industry, but I don't think that's inherent. Of course, believing that and shopping ethically requires a great deal more selectivity and research (and willingness to pay more for food whose provenance can be trusted). Not to pick a fight, but I don't get the basic argument that 'all animal husbandry = unnatural explo…

> animal abuse can occur within the dairy industry, but I don't think that's inherent

There is no economical way to do it otherwise. I honestly don't care that much about animal abuse (I do think that animal agriculture is often environmentally unsustainable), but you can't really play pretend about "some milk not involving abuse"

Re: Vegan cheese has quietly but steadily infiltrated mainstream supermarket shelves

#307

Post by MisterBastahrd » Thu, Apr 29, 2021, 11:18 PM UTC

jjcon wrote: post #2

> Vegan Cheese Is Ready to Compete With Dairy. Is the World Ready to Eat It? I’m vegetarian and my partner is vegan - I’ve tried every vegan cheese on the shelf. The answer is no because it’s not even close to ready. It might pass an initial taste test where you say, that’s not so bad, but then you pick up on all the things it’s missing. Sometimes the aftertaste is terrible, sometimes the texture or versatility. Mayb…

I've had vegan yogurt that is better than the alternative.

But cheese? Half the Miyoko's products taste like a finely ground nut paste mixed with mold and spoiled milk.

Re: Vegan cheese has quietly but steadily infiltrated mainstream supermarket shelves

#308

Post by armenarmen » Thu, Apr 29, 2021, 11:18 PM UTC

the-alchemist wrote: post #238

subculture wrote: post #136

There's certainly a trope of "...but I can't give up cheese" and as someone who went from vegetarian to vegan: Yeah, cheese is hard to replicate. But also: your body and tastes adapt. After a few weeks off of dairy our memories of those old textures and mouth feel start to fade and are replaced. Humans don't like changes in patterns, but at the same time are relatively quick to adapt to new ones. There's real addicti…

Yeah, I've found moving to new foods to be relatively painless if done incrementally. Took just two weeks to convert my toddler son from cow's milk to soy milk (Silk brand, for the curious). First day, it was 90% / 10% dairy/cow. Second day, it was (eyeballing) 85% / 15% dairy/cow. You get the idea... Didn't even notice the transition.

Just curious, any reason for moving your kid from dairy to soy?

Re: Vegan cheese has quietly but steadily infiltrated mainstream supermarket shelves

#309

Post by senectus1 » Thu, Apr 29, 2021, 11:20 PM UTC

jjcon wrote: post #2

> Vegan Cheese Is Ready to Compete With Dairy. Is the World Ready to Eat It? I’m vegetarian and my partner is vegan - I’ve tried every vegan cheese on the shelf. The answer is no because it’s not even close to ready. It might pass an initial taste test where you say, that’s not so bad, but then you pick up on all the things it’s missing. Sometimes the aftertaste is terrible, sometimes the texture or versatility. Mayb…

its not too bad provided you don't try to heat it.

vegan cheese just doesnt have the same fat and sugar properties that normal cheese does.

Re: Vegan cheese has quietly but steadily infiltrated mainstream supermarket shelves

#310

Post by whimsicalism » Thu, Apr 29, 2021, 11:20 PM UTC

jfk13 wrote: post #23

fader wrote: post #7

I had some bad experiences early on with vegan cheese substitutes, so I wrote them off years ago. Recently I was eating my "standard" sandwich order from a local restaurant. It actually tasted so much better than normal that I asked if they had changed anything, only to find out that they had used their vegan cheese substitute by mistake. I'll be giving these cheese substitutes another shot in the future!

I can't help suspecting this says something about the quality of cheese your local place uses.

Or their preference?