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Union's evidence in Amazon vote 'could be grounds for overturning election'

reuters.com

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Re: Union's evidence in Amazon vote 'could be grounds for overturning election'

#111

Post by dariusj18 »

Xylakant wrote: post #93
pydry wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Computerization of stock control and sales made trusting and empowering the employees much less necessary. I suspect his attitude would not have lasted even if he had survived.

One of the largest german drugstore chains still operates by that principle and they're successful with it. Computerized sales will not pick up on certain things - for example stuff that is not available in the store but people ask for.

When I go to Walmart and try to find the thing on the shelves that the website says is there but is not, I will wrangle an employee for help. Typically they just say that the website isn't always right and leave it at that. As far as I can tell they don't then do anything to correct the website.

Re: Union's evidence in Amazon vote 'could be grounds for overturning election'

#112

Post by Red_Leaves_Flyy »

offtop5 wrote: post #82
refurb wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you think it would take years? The NLRB has been known to interject during strikes when either side is breaking the law. It’s not like they can’t act quickly.

Rent's still due Monday. Hypothetically let's say Amazon is found to be at fault, even if action is taken your still out of work. I consider myself fairly educated, and I still have no idea what remedies exist if Amazon was to close a warehouse due to unionization. For working class people who are more concerned about paying their bills, voting for a union sounds like a very risky proposition. There's a very good cha…

This sounds like fear mongering. How often do union votes result in closures?

Re: Union's evidence in Amazon vote 'could be grounds for overturning election'

#113

Post by Red_Leaves_Flyy »

America is lacking a strong militant labor movement. The kind of movement like we saw in Venezuela, or from environmental activists. Chain yourself to your truck, machine, or desk with 5,000 of your comrades and go on a hunger strike prepared to get beat up and flung around by the local pd for a great a-roll. Coordinate with local press to have camera crews in there 24/7 live streaming everything. Since it's a strike, have everyone get busy on social media engaging in the public discourse and sharing dank memes.

Re: Union's evidence in Amazon vote 'could be grounds for overturning election'

#114

Post by offtop5 »

Red_Leaves_Flyy wrote: post #112
offtop5 wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rent's still due Monday. Hypothetically let's say Amazon is found to be at fault, even if action is taken your still out of work. I consider myself fairly educated, and I still have no idea what remedies exist if Amazon was to close a warehouse due to unionization. For working class people who are more concerned about paying their bills, voting for a union sounds like a very risky proposition. There's a very good cha…

This sounds like fear mongering. How often do union votes result in closures?

>How often do union votes result in closures?

Would you gamble your family eating on this ?

I still remember being a low wage worker, fear is apart of the job ! Most people can't even go a few weeks without a check, it's not like us where we can quit and take a few months to find a job which ideologically aligns with our views.

Re: Union's evidence in Amazon vote 'could be grounds for overturning election'

#115

Post by bell-cot »

My impression (over a few decades) is that news stories about a unionization vote (won, lost, or upcoming) near-always proclaim the employer's "vote no" campaign to be exceptionally aggressive and underhanded. Perhaps my news sources quietly ignore the ~99% of unionization votes where such is not the case. But I suspect that both pro- and anti-union readers feel quite flattered by such characterizations, and so journalists have learned to proclaim that in near-all their stories upon the subject.

Whether or not that suspicion is correct, I get the impression that even a slightly-competent union would have fully expected Amazon to fight hard and nasty in this case. A couple stories (from seemingly-pro-union sources) seemed to say that the location was one which Amazon would have chosen, if they had to face a union vote. Compared to other Amazon warehouses, this one paid notably less-bad wages (relative to the local job market), had notably less-evil managers (again, relative), etc.

If that's vaguely correct, then how can the union's decision to fight in Bessemer, AL be explained? "The union is a sock puppet of Amazon's, and losing was the secret plan..." sounds cool. But there are many different unions in this world. Perhaps while a noisy one was picking and losing a fight in Bessemer, the savvier ones were quietly continuing with their own plans for Amazon.

Re: Union's evidence in Amazon vote 'could be grounds for overturning election'

#116

Post by eli_gottlieb »

apples_oranges wrote: post #48

I just finished Sam Walton's Book "Made in America". It's about Walmart, but I heard somewhere it's required reading for all Amazon managers. Anyway, it's a fantastic book, and there's something about their Anti-Union stance in it: "I have always believed strongly that we don’t need unions at Wal-Mart. Theoretically, I understand the argument that unions try to make, that the associates need someone to represent them…

>But historically, as unions have developed in this country, they have mostly just been divisive. They have put management on one side of the fence, employees on the other, and themselves in the middle as almost a separate business, one that depends on division between the other two camps.

But workers and management really are on two different sides of the fence. We have intrinsically opposed material interests. Management are not our friends.

Re: Union's evidence in Amazon vote 'could be grounds for overturning election'

#117

Post by Red_Leaves_Flyy »

offtop5 wrote: post #114
Red_Leaves_Flyy wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sounds like fear mongering. How often do union votes result in closures?

>How often do union votes result in closures? Would you gamble your family eating on this ? I still remember being a low wage worker, fear is apart of the job ! Most people can't even go a few weeks without a check, it's not like us where we can quit and take a few months to find a job which ideologically aligns with our views.

More fear mongering. Amazon's not going to set their cash on fire and close the center, they'll take it in the teeth and fight the union tooth and nail at ever step. FTR I'd have voted yes.

Re: Union's evidence in Amazon vote 'could be grounds for overturning election'

#118

Post by refurb »

claudiawerner wrote: post #80
refurb wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

”simply pointing out the existence of propaganda” Why do you assume only you can see that’s it’s propaganda and they can’t?

I don't assume that. Actually, I assume the opposite - they are more likely to see some propaganda for what it is than I am. But I do think everyone has blind spots, and I do think propaganda is effective, even if you know it's propaganda. Even with a small group of people believing propaganda, peer pressure and the desire for humans to conform with the actions of their in-group can wield significant influence. In th…

You start off saying "they are more likely to see some propaganda for what it is than I am", then go into 2.5 more paragraphs how that's not really true and they are susceptible.

I find Amazon worker susceptibility to propaganda to be a little silly. And I'm talking about "fake news" propaganda, not promotion of a true, but pro-Amazon viewpoint.

Most folks I worked with a lower-paying, manual labor jobs had zero illusions about their employer. They aren't getting the "bring your whole self to work" and "help us change the world" bullshit that the big companies feed their white collar workers. It was very clear that the employer looked out for themselves (e.g. profit) and workers were easily replaceable.

I think people who claim they were manipulated need to give the workers a little more credit.

Re: Union's evidence in Amazon vote 'could be grounds for overturning election'

#119

Post by calvano915 »

Xylakant wrote: post #93
pydry wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Computerization of stock control and sales made trusting and empowering the employees much less necessary. I suspect his attitude would not have lasted even if he had survived.

One of the largest german drugstore chains still operates by that principle and they're successful with it. Computerized sales will not pick up on certain things - for example stuff that is not available in the store but people ask for.

It's super anecdotal but my dad has done home improvement work for decades and has found Home Depot to be completely incompetent with stocking their stores these last few years. Many of the employees who have been around say its all due to centralized inventory management (computerized and non-local). The impression is that up until a few years ago, a store could order what they needed based on local demand and not be restricted to only what the algorithm decides.

Re: Union's evidence in Amazon vote 'could be grounds for overturning election'

#120

Post by refurb »

offtop5 wrote: post #114
Red_Leaves_Flyy wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sounds like fear mongering. How often do union votes result in closures?

>How often do union votes result in closures? Would you gamble your family eating on this ? I still remember being a low wage worker, fear is apart of the job ! Most people can't even go a few weeks without a check, it's not like us where we can quit and take a few months to find a job which ideologically aligns with our views.

Yeah, I would gamble on it if there were no examples of it happening.
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