Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Union's evidence in Amazon vote 'could be grounds for overturning election'

reuters.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

61–70 of 141 posts

Re: Union's evidence in Amazon vote 'could be grounds for overturning election'

#61

Post by [deleted] »

bongobingo wrote: post #30
enkid wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine a world where being able to not have access to healthcare is a good thing.

If you’re not American, it’s difficult to understand. However, insurance is an absolute scam in the US. You pay hundreds of dollars per month for the privilege of having to pay thousands of dollars before your insurance will start paying. For many families the monthly premiums could run over a thousand dollars, and the deductible could be $15,000. …or you could get some cheap catastrophic insurance, and pay cash for…

[deleted]

Re: Union's evidence in Amazon vote 'could be grounds for overturning election'

#62

Post by pydry »

apples_oranges wrote: post #48

I just finished Sam Walton's Book "Made in America". It's about Walmart, but I heard somewhere it's required reading for all Amazon managers. Anyway, it's a fantastic book, and there's something about their Anti-Union stance in it: "I have always believed strongly that we don’t need unions at Wal-Mart. Theoretically, I understand the argument that unions try to make, that the associates need someone to represent them…

This is a perspective that will be broadcast by the financial media (usually uncritically) and rammed down the throats of employees in compulsory anti union seminars. It's pretty hard to miss.

Even if it weren't broadcast at us relentlessly it's not like it's in any way surprising.

It would be mildly interesting if he questioned why unions in Europe were vastly less confrontational and acted in a way he purports to prefer, but I imagine that's a topic that would get uncomfortable for him fairly quickly.

Instead he simply declares his sworn enemy "too confrontational".

Re: Union's evidence in Amazon vote 'could be grounds for overturning election'

#63

Post by Kneecaps07 »

dannyw wrote: post #3

Amazon is offering competitive wages (especially for Albama's cost of living), and benefits from day one. Maybe a majority of the workers there prefer the status quo?

If this is what the workers got without a union, imagine how much better it could be with a union negotiating on their behalf?

Re: Union's evidence in Amazon vote 'could be grounds for overturning election'

#64

Post by heymijo »

bko wrote: post #42
sammorrowdrums wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would be willing to listen to that line of argument, but having seen the Amazon manager training videos, the doitwithoutdues.com site, the countless other articles, evidence and anecdotes about Amazon's particularly aggressive forms of trying to prevent unionisation, the twitter ambassadors tweeting the official talking points etc. I don't think we can rule out the possibility we don't actually know what the employ…

The union is free to pay Amazon employees $15 an hour to watch their propaganda videos. This paternalism of low wage employees needs to stop. They can make up their own mind and actually have skin in the game as opposed to some tech worker making 10x as much telling them they're being brainwashed

This is an ahistorical argument that is wildly ignorant of the power dynamics between labor and capital, with a Nassim Taleb-ism shoe-horned in to a place where it doesn't fit.

Re: Union's evidence in Amazon vote 'could be grounds for overturning election'

#65

Post by rovr138 »

Miner49er wrote: post #47
rovr138 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Finally, you can't switch any time, it can only be done during an open enrollment period or if you have a major life event like getting married, I think? I know you can’t change the policy, but I’m not sure about providers (like going from being in your jobs policy to going with a private one)

I don't think so, you can cancel any time, but even with private insurance, I don't think you can enroll anytime.

I honestly haven’t had private insurance in maybe 10 years so I don’t know if and how things may have changed. And timing may also have simply worked out when I did.

What’s horrible is, imagine being let go or quitting your job, not being able to afford COBRA (or whatever it’s called now) and then not even being able to signup for private insurance due to open enrollment period not lining up.

.

I follow some people in social media from when I worked at Starbucks. I saw recently someone saying they feel something on one hand and not the other. Someone commented that it was time for some home surgery and they agreed.

I have no idea if they are serious or not, and that worries me. I would hope they’re joking, but with the state of things, who knows (and I honestly think if needed, they’d do it).

Re: Union's evidence in Amazon vote 'could be grounds for overturning election'

#66

Post by refurb »

offtop5 wrote: post #50

Isn't it a completely rational fear that Amazon would just fire most employees if they unionize against Amazon's wishes. Even if this isn't exactly legal, it would take years to sort it out in court. Rent's due Monday, no one has time to wait for justice to prevail

Why do you think it would take years? The NLRB has been known to interject during strikes when either side is breaking the law. It’s not like they can’t act quickly.

Re: Union's evidence in Amazon vote 'could be grounds for overturning election'

#67

Post by Latty »

apples_oranges wrote: post #48

I just finished Sam Walton's Book "Made in America". It's about Walmart, but I heard somewhere it's required reading for all Amazon managers. Anyway, it's a fantastic book, and there's something about their Anti-Union stance in it: "I have always believed strongly that we don’t need unions at Wal-Mart. Theoretically, I understand the argument that unions try to make, that the associates need someone to represent them…

"We don't need them because it has downsides for me." is an argument for Unions, not against them. The fact that he accepts the need/value for workers in a union, then completely ignores that to say they are not needed because it's bad for the business just shows not even the willingness to pretend to care about employees.

We see, time and time again, that as businesses do better, they don't use that to help employees, they use that as a weapon to treat employees worse. As they get bigger they can drive out competitors who might compete for employees, and can more easily replace any employee, reducing their ability to negotiate more. "What is good for the business is good for the employee." clearly does not hold for most businesses like Walmart.

Re: Union's evidence in Amazon vote 'could be grounds for overturning election'

#69

Post by Dobbs »

chrisseaton wrote: post #22
Dobbs wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the article it is made very clear that what is being alleged is that it wasn't a democratic vote. What is being alleged is that Amazon threatened to close the warehouse, and/or fire people based upon how they vote. Something that if I understand correctly is illegal, and even if not illegal is definitely not a democratic vote.

> If you read the article It's against the site rules here to suggest people haven't read the article - please don't do this. I was replying to a parent comment which said 'how can anyone oppose a union'. Some people legitimately don't want to have to deal with a union, for any of many reasons. For example because the union supports political goals they don't agree with, or because the union favours other employees o…

Removed the reading the article bit.

1. OP says: unions are good they bring democracy into things.

2. You say: They had a democratic vote

3. I say: The article is alleging that they didn't have a democratic vote.

Your comment is clearly stating that the vote was democratic, the unions lost, so we should move on. The entire article that this conversation is about is saying that the vote wasn't democratic and was coerced. My response stands, you can't just say "democratic vote, lets move on", because if the allegations are true then there wasn't a democratic vote.

Re: Union's evidence in Amazon vote 'could be grounds for overturning election'

#70

Post by gameswithgo »

apples_oranges wrote: post #48

I just finished Sam Walton's Book "Made in America". It's about Walmart, but I heard somewhere it's required reading for all Amazon managers. Anyway, it's a fantastic book, and there's something about their Anti-Union stance in it: "I have always believed strongly that we don’t need unions at Wal-Mart. Theoretically, I understand the argument that unions try to make, that the associates need someone to represent them…

>And divisiveness, by breaking down direct communication, makes it harder to take care of customers, to be competitive, and to gain market share

That is all true, it also makes it easier for employees to negotiate a better deal for themselves, which then encourages management to replace the people with foreign labor or robots. Such is life.

Post reply on HN