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Union's evidence in Amazon vote 'could be grounds for overturning election'

reuters.com

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Re: Union's evidence in Amazon vote 'could be grounds for overturning election'

#41

Post by refurb »

Dobbs wrote: post #14
refurb wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Voting goes the way I think it should = people rationally voted for their best interest despite all the propaganda Voting doesn't go the way I think it should = people were clearly swayed by propaganda and didn't vote in their best interest Either we treat people like adults and trust their voting or we don't. One doesn't get to pick and choose which voting is "right".

In the article it was made very clear that this wasn't about propaganda, what is being alleged is that they have evidence that Amazon threatened and coerced people into voting against the union. Propaganda may or may not be dirty, but threats of firings, plant closure, etc if the Union passes is illegal. Very very different.

Did you read the comment I was replying to? It wasn’t talking about threats it was talking about Amazon’s anti-union campaign.

Re: Union's evidence in Amazon vote 'could be grounds for overturning election'

#42

Post by bko »

sammorrowdrums wrote: post #6
dannyw wrote: post #3

Amazon is offering competitive wages (especially for Albama's cost of living), and benefits from day one. Maybe a majority of the workers there prefer the status quo?

I would be willing to listen to that line of argument, but having seen the Amazon manager training videos, the doitwithoutdues.com site, the countless other articles, evidence and anecdotes about Amazon's particularly aggressive forms of trying to prevent unionisation, the twitter ambassadors tweeting the official talking points etc. I don't think we can rule out the possibility we don't actually know what the employ…

The union is free to pay Amazon employees $15 an hour to watch their propaganda videos.

This paternalism of low wage employees needs to stop. They can make up their own mind and actually have skin in the game as opposed to some tech worker making 10x as much telling them they're being brainwashed

Re: Union's evidence in Amazon vote 'could be grounds for overturning election'

#43

Post by bongobingo »

rovr138 wrote: post #38
bongobingo wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you’re not American, it’s difficult to understand. However, insurance is an absolute scam in the US. You pay hundreds of dollars per month for the privilege of having to pay thousands of dollars before your insurance will start paying. For many families the monthly premiums could run over a thousand dollars, and the deductible could be $15,000. …or you could get some cheap catastrophic insurance, and pay cash for…

That’s also a VERY high premium AND deductible. Not saying it’s not out there, but they both are high.

The average premium for a family is over $1,000. The average family deductible is around $7,000. The numbers I quoted are high overall, but people absolutely pay those amounts. This topic of conversation is edge cases, anyway. The average person paying average costs wouldn’t likely be interested in going cash for healthcare.

Re: Union's evidence in Amazon vote 'could be grounds for overturning election'

#44

Post by zeckalpha »

bongobingo wrote: post #33
robobro wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an iww organizer with friends across the US in Amazon warehouse management and on the ground- no Unions are just bringing democracy into capitalism. How can any red blooded American oppose them? Edit: not sure why I'm being down voted, did I say something offensive??

Does that democracy include the right to not join the union?

Yes

Re: Union's evidence in Amazon vote 'could be grounds for overturning election'

#46

Post by hnbad »

chrisseaton wrote: post #11
sammorrowdrums wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would be willing to listen to that line of argument, but having seen the Amazon manager training videos, the doitwithoutdues.com site, the countless other articles, evidence and anecdotes about Amazon's particularly aggressive forms of trying to prevent unionisation, the twitter ambassadors tweeting the official talking points etc. I don't think we can rule out the possibility we don't actually know what the employ…

> And I certainly don't think Amazon would put so much effort into fighting this if their employee treatment, benefits and compensation and general employer track record made employees genuinely not even consider the Union option. You can say the same thing about any political campaign! Do you think people must not really want Joe Biden as president because he had to spend $6 billion to persuade them through campaign…

> Do you think people must not really want Joe Biden as president because he had to spend $6 billion to persuade them through campaigning?

Unironically, yes. But that doesn't mean they would have wanted Trump.

Re: Union's evidence in Amazon vote 'could be grounds for overturning election'

#47

Post by Miner49er »

rovr138 wrote: post #37
Miner49er wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think this is true? It depends on several different things. If Amazon covers 100% of the insurance then they have to take it, or if it's in their employment contract that they have to take it, then they have to. Additionally, if they are paid a low enough emount that they qualify for government subsidies on health insurance, they can't get those if they deny the Amazon supplied insurance. Edit: I checked, and…

> Finally, you can't switch any time, it can only be done during an open enrollment period or if you have a major life event like getting married, I think? I know you can’t change the policy, but I’m not sure about providers (like going from being in your jobs policy to going with a private one)

I don't think so, you can cancel any time, but even with private insurance, I don't think you can enroll anytime.

Re: Union's evidence in Amazon vote 'could be grounds for overturning election'

#48

Post by apples_oranges »

I just finished Sam Walton's Book "Made in America". It's about Walmart, but I heard somewhere it's required reading for all Amazon managers. Anyway, it's a fantastic book, and there's something about their Anti-Union stance in it:

"I have always believed strongly that we don’t need unions at Wal-Mart. Theoretically, I understand the argument that unions try to make, that the associates need someone to represent them and so on. But historically, as unions have developed in this country, they have mostly just been divisive. They have put management on one side of the fence, employees on the other, and themselves in the middle as almost a separate business, one that depends on division between the other two camps. And divisiveness, by breaking down direct communication, makes it harder to take care of customers, to be competitive, and to gain market share."

I just post this because I the vibe in discussions on those union-related posts always seems so aggressive and stand-offish.. It's good to understand many perspectives before picking a side, if any.

(Also this is just an excerpt, there's much more about employee compensation in the book.)

Re: Union's evidence in Amazon vote 'could be grounds for overturning election'

#49

Post by enkid »

bongobingo wrote: post #30
enkid wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine a world where being able to not have access to healthcare is a good thing.

If you’re not American, it’s difficult to understand. However, insurance is an absolute scam in the US. You pay hundreds of dollars per month for the privilege of having to pay thousands of dollars before your insurance will start paying. For many families the monthly premiums could run over a thousand dollars, and the deductible could be $15,000. …or you could get some cheap catastrophic insurance, and pay cash for…

I am American, and I understand how health insurance works, and the fact that people are put into a position where it doesn't make sense to buy health insurance is the problem, not that individuals make that choice.

Re: Union's evidence in Amazon vote 'could be grounds for overturning election'

#50

Post by offtop5 »

Isn't it a completely rational fear that Amazon would just fire most employees if they unionize against Amazon's wishes. Even if this isn't exactly legal, it would take years to sort it out in court. Rent's due Monday, no one has time to wait for justice to prevail
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