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Union's evidence in Amazon vote 'could be grounds for overturning election'

reuters.com

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Re: Union's evidence in Amazon vote 'could be grounds for overturning election'

#11

Post by chrisseaton »

sammorrowdrums wrote: post #6
dannyw wrote: post #3

Amazon is offering competitive wages (especially for Albama's cost of living), and benefits from day one. Maybe a majority of the workers there prefer the status quo?

I would be willing to listen to that line of argument, but having seen the Amazon manager training videos, the doitwithoutdues.com site, the countless other articles, evidence and anecdotes about Amazon's particularly aggressive forms of trying to prevent unionisation, the twitter ambassadors tweeting the official talking points etc. I don't think we can rule out the possibility we don't actually know what the employ…

> And I certainly don't think Amazon would put so much effort into fighting this if their employee treatment, benefits and compensation and general employer track record made employees genuinely not even consider the Union option.

You can say the same thing about any political campaign!

Do you think people must not really want Joe Biden as president because he had to spend $6 billion to persuade them through campaigning?

Re: Union's evidence in Amazon vote 'could be grounds for overturning election'

#12

Post by MomoXenosaga »

dannyw wrote: post #3

Amazon is offering competitive wages (especially for Albama's cost of living), and benefits from day one. Maybe a majority of the workers there prefer the status quo?

One analysis in a local newspaper was something that blew my mind: in the US your health insurance is tied to your employer?!. Just think about how absolutely insane that is. Your boss has life or death power over you and your loved ones. Apparently that's how Amazon was able to threaten it's workers.

Re: Union's evidence in Amazon vote 'could be grounds for overturning election'

#13

Post by LatteLazy »

>The RWDSU alleged that Amazon's agents unlawfully threatened employees with closure of the warehouse if they joined the union and that the company emailed a warning it would lay off 75% of the proposed bargaining unit because of the union.

Amazon denies this.

Especially the email, either that happened or it didn't. Either way someone needs to go to jail for perjury.

Re: Union's evidence in Amazon vote 'could be grounds for overturning election'

#14

Post by Dobbs »

refurb wrote: post #9
sammorrowdrums wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would be willing to listen to that line of argument, but having seen the Amazon manager training videos, the doitwithoutdues.com site, the countless other articles, evidence and anecdotes about Amazon's particularly aggressive forms of trying to prevent unionisation, the twitter ambassadors tweeting the official talking points etc. I don't think we can rule out the possibility we don't actually know what the employ…

Voting goes the way I think it should = people rationally voted for their best interest despite all the propaganda Voting doesn't go the way I think it should = people were clearly swayed by propaganda and didn't vote in their best interest Either we treat people like adults and trust their voting or we don't. One doesn't get to pick and choose which voting is "right".

In the article it was made very clear that this wasn't about propaganda, what is being alleged is that they have evidence that Amazon threatened and coerced people into voting against the union.

Propaganda may or may not be dirty, but threats of firings, plant closure, etc if the Union passes is illegal. Very very different.

Re: Union's evidence in Amazon vote 'could be grounds for overturning election'

#15

Post by Dobbs »

chrisseaton wrote: post #10
robobro wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an iww organizer with friends across the US in Amazon warehouse management and on the ground- no Unions are just bringing democracy into capitalism. How can any red blooded American oppose them? Edit: not sure why I'm being down voted, did I say something offensive??

> Unions are just bringing democracy into capitalism. How can any red blooded American oppose them? Well they had a democratic vote and decided they did not want to be represented by this union. That's democracy working.

In the article it is made very clear that what is being alleged is that it wasn't a democratic vote. What is being alleged is that Amazon threatened to close the warehouse, and/or fire people based upon how they vote. Something that if I understand correctly is illegal, and even if not illegal is definitely not a democratic vote.

Re: Union's evidence in Amazon vote 'could be grounds for overturning election'

#16

Post by nieksand »

robobro wrote: post #5
dannyw wrote: post #3

Amazon is offering competitive wages (especially for Albama's cost of living), and benefits from day one. Maybe a majority of the workers there prefer the status quo?

As an iww organizer with friends across the US in Amazon warehouse management and on the ground- no Unions are just bringing democracy into capitalism. How can any red blooded American oppose them? Edit: not sure why I'm being down voted, did I say something offensive??

1. At their best unions protect members from managerial malfeasance, but unions also go out of their way to protect incompetents who should be fired. That is soul crushing as a coworker, bad for the company, and possibly harmful to customers.

2. Unions are heavily involved in politics. As a worker, part of your paycheck is being seized to support politicians whom you may vehemently oppose.

3. American unions fixate on seniority and credentials as metrics of merit. This is a poor fit for professions like software engineering and educators, where those only loosely correlate to actual performance.

4. Unions foster adversarial relationships within companies, an us/them mentality against "management". Sometimes the environment is already toxic so nothing is lost, but it can also turn an otherwise reasonable workplace sour.

Re: Union's evidence in Amazon vote 'could be grounds for overturning election'

#17

Post by [deleted] »

robobro wrote: post #5
dannyw wrote: post #3

Amazon is offering competitive wages (especially for Albama's cost of living), and benefits from day one. Maybe a majority of the workers there prefer the status quo?

As an iww organizer with friends across the US in Amazon warehouse management and on the ground- no Unions are just bringing democracy into capitalism. How can any red blooded American oppose them? Edit: not sure why I'm being down voted, did I say something offensive??

[deleted]

Re: Union's evidence in Amazon vote 'could be grounds for overturning election'

#18

Post by djbebs »

MomoXenosaga wrote: post #12
dannyw wrote: post #3

Amazon is offering competitive wages (especially for Albama's cost of living), and benefits from day one. Maybe a majority of the workers there prefer the status quo?

One analysis in a local newspaper was something that blew my mind: in the US your health insurance is tied to your employer?!. Just think about how absolutely insane that is. Your boss has life or death power over you and your loved ones. Apparently that's how Amazon was able to threaten it's workers.

There is nothing stopping you from buying your own health insurance. You used to be able to go without, but thanks to Obama care that is now not an option, and you are forced to do business with insurers

Re: Union's evidence in Amazon vote 'could be grounds for overturning election'

#19

Post by enkid »

djbebs wrote: post #18
MomoXenosaga wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One analysis in a local newspaper was something that blew my mind: in the US your health insurance is tied to your employer?!. Just think about how absolutely insane that is. Your boss has life or death power over you and your loved ones. Apparently that's how Amazon was able to threaten it's workers.

There is nothing stopping you from buying your own health insurance. You used to be able to go without, but thanks to Obama care that is now not an option, and you are forced to do business with insurers

Imagine a world where being able to not have access to healthcare is a good thing.

Re: Union's evidence in Amazon vote 'could be grounds for overturning election'

#20

Post by [deleted] »

refurb wrote: post #9
sammorrowdrums wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would be willing to listen to that line of argument, but having seen the Amazon manager training videos, the doitwithoutdues.com site, the countless other articles, evidence and anecdotes about Amazon's particularly aggressive forms of trying to prevent unionisation, the twitter ambassadors tweeting the official talking points etc. I don't think we can rule out the possibility we don't actually know what the employ…

Voting goes the way I think it should = people rationally voted for their best interest despite all the propaganda Voting doesn't go the way I think it should = people were clearly swayed by propaganda and didn't vote in their best interest Either we treat people like adults and trust their voting or we don't. One doesn't get to pick and choose which voting is "right".

[deleted]
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