New evidence that British workplaces are losing viewpoint diversity • Hacker News Board

Re: New evidence that British workplaces are losing viewpoint diversity

#431

Post by krageon » Thu, Apr 29, 2021, 1:13 PM UTC

blueflow wrote: post #316

Tycho wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lot of advice floating about the workplace these days along the lines of be candid, join the conversation, bring your whole self to work, etc. The people giving this advice seem to have no conception that not everyone actively engaged in these topics is acting in 100% good faith. Being too open could so easily backfire. Encouraging this is borderline negligent. Indeed there’s entire branches of activism that rest on…

I never got what people mean with "bad faith" stuff. Like its some inherently bad kind of behaviors and ideas? Can you explain it to me like im 5? The worst that i can think of is that people are hiding their true interests and thus lying to you.

Just as an example, there are many ways to speak in bad faith: They say something they know is wrong so you correct them, then they take offense. They then leverage this perceived (by everyone else) offense and use it to gain some sort of advantage (over you, or systemically).

In contrast, talking in good faith is saying something they believe is true. Maybe you correct them or maybe you don't, but in the end they're just trying to talk to other people.

Re: New evidence that British workplaces are losing viewpoint diversity

#432

Post by varispeed » Thu, Apr 29, 2021, 1:14 PM UTC

twic wrote: post #291

jl6 wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I assume that the previous poster sees “new segregationism” in the following behaviours: * The de-nuancing of race by reverting to “white” vs “black” and sidelining all other “races”. * The redefinition of racism to be exclusively something that “white” people do to “black” people. * The rollback of cultural integration goals by ringfencing certain behaviours as either “black” or “white”, with any cross-pollination b…

I would say new segregationism is specifically the third and fourth points. Only black women are allowed to date black rappers: https://hiphopwired.com/playlist/bobby-shmurda-girlfriend-tw... Only black translators being allowed to translate the work of black writers: https://edition.cnn.com/style/article/amanda-gorman-catalan-... Only black people are allowed to have a particular hairstyle on their Animal Crossing c…

Reminds me of a friend (a white woman) who was wearing dreadlocks for a period of time (she loved reggae music and everything associated with it). She was abused by black people who didn't like she "appropriated" "their" hair style and she was abused by white supremacists for "promoting" other races. She ended up shaving her head after a couple of incidents.

Re: New evidence that British workplaces are losing viewpoint diversity

#433

Post by nostromo » Thu, Apr 29, 2021, 1:15 PM UTC

Loughla wrote: post #417

giantg2 wrote: post #397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been one to speak my mind. I see myself as having been punished for it. I was doing work a grade or two above mine but was held back from promotion. So I didn't make senior developer on that team. Then I was even in jeopardy of losing my job over a statement I made (not vulgar, disrespectful, or anything) so I have to switch stacks a couple times to move out of a bad area of the company. I'm 9 years in and just…

Not to get too far into a debate about this, as we're well off the path of the article now, but I'm genuinely not sure if you've thought of this. Your argument: >the discrepancy comes from the types of jobs that men and women are in. only comes down to just being a moving the goal posts sort of thing from disparity in pay to disparity in expectation and opportunity for young men versus women. It's not a compelling ar…

> it points to a theory that societal norms serve to re-enforce the expectation of taking jobs in lower paying fields on women versus men.

That’s one theory. Another is that women and men in the aggregate don’t choose the same careers in exactly even proportions.

Re: New evidence that British workplaces are losing viewpoint diversity

#434

Post by Loughla » Thu, Apr 29, 2021, 1:17 PM UTC

jb775 wrote: post #156

livinginfear wrote: post #80

I consider myself a very politically informed person. I'm not a politically active person however, largely for the reasons mentioned in the article. I considered myself a liberal by the standards of the time I grew up in. My views on some social issues, particularly 'free speech', are considered a conservative now. I am one of the people the article is concerning who will not publicly voice their political opinions i…

> how willingly other people bring up politically sensitive issues in the workplace I'd say I'm a mix of conservative/Libertarian and this kind of blows my mind over the past few years. It seems like I constantly hear people on the left openly voicing their political opinions around crowds of people, and always speak in a way that they genuinely believe everyone around them agrees....and often have a condescending wa…

Honestly, and this is a real question, do you not see how you are literally doing exactly what you're calling out 'the other side' for doing?

Re: New evidence that British workplaces are losing viewpoint diversity

#435

Post by gameswithgo » Thu, Apr 29, 2021, 1:17 PM UTC

giantg2 wrote: post #397

livinginfear wrote: post #80

I consider myself a very politically informed person. I'm not a politically active person however, largely for the reasons mentioned in the article. I considered myself a liberal by the standards of the time I grew up in. My views on some social issues, particularly 'free speech', are considered a conservative now. I am one of the people the article is concerning who will not publicly voice their political opinions i…

I've been one to speak my mind. I see myself as having been punished for it. I was doing work a grade or two above mine but was held back from promotion. So I didn't make senior developer on that team. Then I was even in jeopardy of losing my job over a statement I made (not vulgar, disrespectful, or anything) so I have to switch stacks a couple times to move out of a bad area of the company. I'm 9 years in and just…

> I wouldn't be surprised if I get downvoted on here for this comment too.

THAT is the comment that will get you downvoted dude.

Re: New evidence that British workplaces are losing viewpoint diversity

#436

Post by vixen99 » Thu, Apr 29, 2021, 1:18 PM UTC

goodpoint wrote: post #416

tstrimple wrote: post #398

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure why everyone keeps scoffing at the idea of calling some of these folks Nazis or racists. It's not hyperbole or an exaggeration. We did have a rally with a bunch of white nationalists exercising their "free speech" to chant "The Jews will not replace us" and they ended up murdering someone there. We had a National Security Advisor to the President of the United States promoting replacement theory. There a…

You are pointing out that neonazi groups exists and did rallies. Those groups often call for "free speech" and complain about being silenced. Yet, *your* comment is being downvoted away and appears light gray to me. This is really concerning.

The commenter clearly has an agenda to further. No dispassionate observer whatever their political leaning really believes the 'silencing' only exists on the Right. Not a hint of that in the comment. That's concerning.

Re: New evidence that British workplaces are losing viewpoint diversity

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Post by zuminator » Thu, Apr 29, 2021, 1:18 PM UTC

yerwhat01010 wrote: post #182

livinginfear wrote: post #80

I consider myself a very politically informed person. I'm not a politically active person however, largely for the reasons mentioned in the article. I considered myself a liberal by the standards of the time I grew up in. My views on some social issues, particularly 'free speech', are considered a conservative now. I am one of the people the article is concerning who will not publicly voice their political opinions i…

> Even correcting people who are clearly misinformed on clear matters of fact can cause offense. This is so true. I've seen polling showing that large numbers of people believe that the number of unarmed black men fatally shot by American police every year is in the "thousands" or even "tens of thousands". And the further to the left the media people consume, the higher they're likely to believe the number is. The ac…

"The actual number of unarmed black men shot dead by American police in 2019 is thirteen."

I think you mean, the reported number of unarmed black men shot dead by American police in 2019 is thirteen. (But surely we've learned that police reports are not necessarily completely accurate.) And I think that some people believe that a suspect's being armed is not justification for summary execution, barring extraordinary circumstances, so in their minds the caveat of "unarmed" is a distinction without a difference. Therefore they might be more concerned with the total reported number of black persons shot dead by American police, which is 235.

As long as we're on that subject, here's an interesting (albeit somewhat misleading) fact I discovered that I haven't seen cited anywhere else. While 235 fatal shootings by officers doesn't seem like a huge number compared with the total population, consider that there were about 697,195 police officers in the US in 2019, meaning that each officer had a 1/2967 chance of killing a black person that year. Contrast that with the oft-cited black-on-black murder rate: 7484 blacks were murdered in 2019. Let's (erroneously) assume that every single one was killed by a black male. The total black population in 2019 was 46.8 million, 48% of them male which comes to 22.4 million black males. So the chances of a black male murdering another black person is only 1/2933. That's right, a random police officer is very slightly more likely to have killed a black person than a random black male is likely to have killed a black person.

So if it's true that blacks ought to fear other black males, then the fear that some black people have of police officers as a class might be correspondingly justified.

Re: New evidence that British workplaces are losing viewpoint diversity

#438

Post by eplanit » Thu, Apr 29, 2021, 1:18 PM UTC

heresie-dabord wrote: post #280

livinginfear wrote: post #80

I consider myself a very politically informed person. I'm not a politically active person however, largely for the reasons mentioned in the article. I considered myself a liberal by the standards of the time I grew up in. My views on some social issues, particularly 'free speech', are considered a conservative now. I am one of the people the article is concerning who will not publicly voice their political opinions i…

> correcting people who are clearly misinformed on clear matters of fact can cause offense This is modern anti-culture. It's a climate where "opinions" matter more than knowledge and consumerism matters more than democracy. There are many employers. I am an employee, but I am first and foremost a citizen in a Democracy... If I have the courage to defend it and the will to learn/educate. An educational system worth th…

This is why employers want to survey applicants' social media posts, to filter out those with activist views like this.

Re: New evidence that British workplaces are losing viewpoint diversity

#439

Post by tstrimple » Thu, Apr 29, 2021, 1:18 PM UTC

kypro wrote: post #283

livinginfear wrote: post #80

I consider myself a very politically informed person. I'm not a politically active person however, largely for the reasons mentioned in the article. I considered myself a liberal by the standards of the time I grew up in. My views on some social issues, particularly 'free speech', are considered a conservative now. I am one of the people the article is concerning who will not publicly voice their political opinions i…

I have a few (really lovely) conservative friends who have expressed to me that they feel they can't express their political opinions outside of close friends and family because of the social risks involved with doing so. While I hold some "controversial" political opinions they're mostly related to fiscal policy rather than social policy so I've never personally felt like I couldn't express myself if I wanted to --…

> I have a few (really lovely) conservative friends who have expressed to me that they feel they can't express their political opinions outside of close friends and family because of the social risks involved with doing so.

When I read things like this, I think back to [this tweet](https://twitter.com/ndrew_lawrence/status/105039166355267174...). What innocuous issues exactly are conservatives receiving so much backlash on? Most often I see this sentiment from people who just want to say how they really feel about immigrants and "PC culture" is ruining everything for them.

> Conservative: I have been censored for my conservative views

> Me: Holy shit! You were censored for wanting lower taxes?

> Con: LOL no...no not those views

> Me: So....deregulation?

> Con: Haha no not those views either

> Me: Which views, exactly?

> Con: Oh, you know the ones

Re: New evidence that British workplaces are losing viewpoint diversity

#440

Post by gameswithgo » Thu, Apr 29, 2021, 1:18 PM UTC

livinginfear wrote: post #80

I consider myself a very politically informed person. I'm not a politically active person however, largely for the reasons mentioned in the article. I considered myself a liberal by the standards of the time I grew up in. My views on some social issues, particularly 'free speech', are considered a conservative now. I am one of the people the article is concerning who will not publicly voice their political opinions i…

Whether there is legitimate fear of reprisal or not, work is not a good place to talk politics, religion, or any other topic that gets people emotional. Unless of course topic is relevant to your work!