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New evidence that British workplaces are losing viewpoint diversity

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Re: New evidence that British workplaces are losing viewpoint diversity

#371

Post by samvher »

briefcomment wrote: post #323
samvher wrote: post #137

I might be one of these progressive activists, and this is interesting to read and reflect on. I am quite vocal about culture, hiring, compensation etc, though I would definitely not say that I feel "confident being vocal" - it actually feels very exposed and quite vulnerable (in part because others don't necessarily share their own views). The reason I'm still vocal about it is that I care, I would feel much more sa…

What are some of the points you’re explicitly vocal about?

To some extent I think these are things that should be discussed and addressed internally rather than externally so I'll try to be generic. Key things are

(1) I'm a strong believer that anyone with a job should be easily able to get health insurance and be able to send their children to university (i.e. even if law doesn't enforce it I think a decent minimum wage for all employees is appropriate)

(2) people doing work of similar value should get similar compensation in the same organization/on the same team (i.e. location based pay adjustments should be minimal at most)

(3) hiring should be diverse w.r.t. background/class/education (i.e. search widely and resist hiring people's friends)

I think these are not just moral issues, I think a culture of fairness also benefits morale and gives people more confidence to contribute and feel heard. And I think these kinds of issues become especially important when considering public organizations and non-profits.

Re: New evidence that British workplaces are losing viewpoint diversity

#372

Post by oblio »

read_if_gay_ wrote: post #327
oblio wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From what I remember, in polite circles it was always known that you should never discuss politics and religion with anyone except your immediate family and close friends.

Getting fired off a couple tweets is unprecedented though.

Tweeting is like shouting from the rooftops.

Twitter is a broadcast platform, is that so hard to realize?

Re: New evidence that British workplaces are losing viewpoint diversity

#373

Post by SonOfThePlower »

livinginfear wrote: post #80

I consider myself a very politically informed person. I'm not a politically active person however, largely for the reasons mentioned in the article. I considered myself a liberal by the standards of the time I grew up in. My views on some social issues, particularly 'free speech', are considered a conservative now. I am one of the people the article is concerning who will not publicly voice their political opinions i…

The result is that world becomes more and more boring. No interesting discussion can take place. Environment becomes more toxic and it's mainly due to radicals who perceive everything as offensive and everybody who disagrees as "nazi" or "racist" or "-phobic".

Re: New evidence that British workplaces are losing viewpoint diversity

#374

Post by spangry »

mytherin wrote: post #340
jdkoeck wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with the overall point, there are plenty of sane people on the left, thank God. However, I want to defend the idea that some right wing opinions make a lot of logical sense on their own; their being valid does not require right-wing-specific value systems. Let's take one of the points you're criticizing. > someone who doesn't work and doesn't contribute to society doesn't deserve govt handouts Here's the logi…

The refined point (and all preceding points) are not based in any sort of actionable public policy. I would argue that that point is as much based in emotion as the leftist points the parent is talking about. Yes, it sounds good that in a fair society people should not be entitled to the fruits of someone else's work, except if they cannot work themselves. It sounds good to people of both sides. I would not label thi…

> The refined point (and all preceding points) are not based in any sort of actionable public policy. I would argue that that point is as much based in emotion as the leftist points the parent is talking about. Yes, it sounds good that in a fair society people should not be entitled to the fruits of someone else's work, except if they cannot work themselves. It sounds good to people of both sides. I would not label this as a very conservative viewpoint.

There are countries that 'action' this exact policy. Take Australia for example. Unemployment payments are based on the concept of mutual obligation, where those receiving unemployment benefits must demonstrate that they are searching or training for future employment: https://www.servicesaustralia.gov.au/individuals/topics/mutu...

Those who are unable to work, based on certain medical eligibility criteria, do not have to meet mutual obligation requirements to receive the disability support pension: https://www.servicesaustralia.gov.au/individuals/services/ce...

> You can also contribute to society in ways that are not defined as work. What happens to someone that is taking care of children, or taking care of their sick parents? Should they be assisted financially, or not? If so, how do you define that?

Again, this is a policy question that is answered in Australia and which is implemented administratively via the 'carer payment': https://www.servicesaustralia.gov.au/individuals/services/ce...

I agree with your point that people will fall through the cracks and that there will be mistakes in administering any system like this. But that is simply the nature of a rules-based bureaucratic system, which trade off the ability to handle edge cases with scalability.

Re: New evidence that British workplaces are losing viewpoint diversity

#375

Post by christophilus »

heresie-dabord wrote: post #280
livinginfear wrote: post #80

I consider myself a very politically informed person. I'm not a politically active person however, largely for the reasons mentioned in the article. I considered myself a liberal by the standards of the time I grew up in. My views on some social issues, particularly 'free speech', are considered a conservative now. I am one of the people the article is concerning who will not publicly voice their political opinions i…

> correcting people who are clearly misinformed on clear matters of fact can cause offense This is modern anti-culture. It's a climate where "opinions" matter more than knowledge and consumerism matters more than democracy. There are many employers. I am an employee, but I am first and foremost a citizen in a Democracy... If I have the courage to defend it and the will to learn/educate. An educational system worth th…

I’d say it’s where only mainstream opinions matter, and all else is heresy punishable by fire.

Re: New evidence that British workplaces are losing viewpoint diversity

#376

Post by Thorentis »

iso1210 wrote: post #171
Thorentis wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People with, shall we say, radically progressive views, are more than comfortable to share them openly in the staff rooms, kitchens, before and after meetings, etc. without anybody contending with them. Anybody with more centrist, or God forbid conservative views, saves them for the pub afterwards or for their private gatherings. The Overton window seems to shift weekly.

Could you point to some research on this, specifically ones that account for the jobs where this happens (HN readers are likely in jobs that attract more middle class and higher education people, who are overwhelmingly left of the current UK median - go to a taxi driver mess room and compare conversations) and provide examples of the overton window shifting (yes, the rise of farage and ukip shifted it significantly i…

My point was actually that the Overton window has been shifting to the left. It has been shifting to the left on social issues basically ever since the French Revolution, and to the left on economic issue ever since the end of the Cold War.

People looked at Trump and thought "wow, what a far right extremist", but compare Trump to a far right extremist from 100 years ago, and you'll realise just how far left the window has shifted.

Re: New evidence that British workplaces are losing viewpoint diversity

#377

Post by whywhywhywhy »

thrwyoilarticle wrote: post #363
whywhywhywhy wrote: post #356

If you live in the uk you’ll realize the only place you’ll probably hear honest viewpoints aired in public is small village pubs. The only place I’ve heard people vocally support Brexit or say anything other than support for the Labour party is when visiting relatives and going to the pub while there. I’ve never met a single supporter of Brexit or Tories outside of that. What you generally hear on the street, in medi…

Do you find the small village pubs are open to left-wing viewpoints?

Generally in the pub you can air an opinion and have a quite heated debate about something then just move on and still be civil.

Re: New evidence that British workplaces are losing viewpoint diversity

#378

Post by nec4b »

thrwyoilarticle wrote: post #329
jl6 wrote: post #124

Personal politics has absolutely no place in the workplace unless you’re working in politics. Nothing good can come of it. Leave it to the pub and Hacker News. My workplace is a wonderful bastion of big-P-Politics-free collaboration. It is an apolitical safe space. My colleagues and I absolutely do have political views, but there is just no reason whatsoever to share them at work. “Bring your whole self to work” is a…

If you hire women, you're acting politically. And if you don't hire women, you're acting politically. Pretending that you're not political is the comfort of being in a position where those politics don't effect you.

Maybe in Iran or Saudi Arabia, but not in the west where unemployment rate is higher for males.

Re: New evidence that British workplaces are losing viewpoint diversity

#379

Post by dudul »

Aerroon wrote: post #207
dr_dshiv wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would say that this is a failure of philosophy in political leadership. Not that philosophy was ever paramount in politics, but it was at least expected in the highest classes. Everything devolves into tribalism without philosophy. It looks like people are discoursing, but they are really just signalling.

Politics in English-speaking countries, particularly the US, seems to have partly become entertainment. Some of the "fans" appear more fervent than even the politicians themselves. I'm an outsider and even I've been drawn into US politics, because it is entertaining. Sometimes it's more entertaining than a fictional story. But I doubt that this makes for sensible governing.

Politics is sports for those who think themselves too educated for sports.

Re: New evidence that British workplaces are losing viewpoint diversity

#380

Post by thrwyoilarticle »

nec4b wrote: post #378
thrwyoilarticle wrote: post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you hire women, you're acting politically. And if you don't hire women, you're acting politically. Pretending that you're not political is the comfort of being in a position where those politics don't effect you.

Maybe in Iran or Saudi Arabia, but not in the west where unemployment rate is higher for males.

In the West there are people that think women shouldn't work, or shouldn't work professional roles. And if there are countries where employing an individual is illegal, there are citizens of those countries in yours, or companies that work with those countries.
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