New evidence that British workplaces are losing viewpoint diversity • Hacker News Board

Re: New evidence that British workplaces are losing viewpoint diversity

#361

Post by da_big_ghey » Thu, Apr 29, 2021, 11:53 AM UTC

twic wrote: post #291

jl6 wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I assume that the previous poster sees “new segregationism” in the following behaviours: * The de-nuancing of race by reverting to “white” vs “black” and sidelining all other “races”. * The redefinition of racism to be exclusively something that “white” people do to “black” people. * The rollback of cultural integration goals by ringfencing certain behaviours as either “black” or “white”, with any cross-pollination b…

I would say new segregationism is specifically the third and fourth points. Only black women are allowed to date black rappers: https://hiphopwired.com/playlist/bobby-shmurda-girlfriend-tw... Only black translators being allowed to translate the work of black writers: https://edition.cnn.com/style/article/amanda-gorman-catalan-... Only black people are allowed to have a particular hairstyle on their Animal Crossing c…

yes, this represent progresive activist learning lesson from group like KKK. what was the KKK strategy? burn crosses, hold hostile marches, lynch people for to intimidate beyond their numbers. what is progresive strategy? yell on twiter to get persons fired/canceled beyond their numbers. obviously there is not lynching or equivalent here: become incresingly loud to ocupy mindshare past number of people behind the cause.

Re: New evidence that British workplaces are losing viewpoint diversity

#362

Post by thrwyoilarticle » Thu, Apr 29, 2021, 11:54 AM UTC

textgel wrote: post #215

youngtaff wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Looking at UK politics… It's funny how people who are conservative claim their right to free speech is being curtailed when at the same time they're busy curtailing the rights of people who aren't like them - immigrants, non-Cis, non-white people, climate change protesters etc. Oh and let's not forget that the conservatives in the UK branded the likely implications of Brexit as “project fear”

Which rights are they curtailing and how are they doing it?

Right to Protest:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/police-crime-sent...

We will no longer be allowed to exceed a certain noise level with protests.

This is done at the same time that the government annouces a 'War on Woke'.

I'd laugh at how blatant the hypocrisy is but having my civil rights eroded spoils the punchline.

Re: New evidence that British workplaces are losing viewpoint diversity

#363

Post by thrwyoilarticle » Thu, Apr 29, 2021, 11:55 AM UTC

whywhywhywhy wrote: post #356

If you live in the uk you’ll realize the only place you’ll probably hear honest viewpoints aired in public is small village pubs. The only place I’ve heard people vocally support Brexit or say anything other than support for the Labour party is when visiting relatives and going to the pub while there. I’ve never met a single supporter of Brexit or Tories outside of that. What you generally hear on the street, in medi…

Do you find the small village pubs are open to left-wing viewpoints?

Re: New evidence that British workplaces are losing viewpoint diversity

#364

Post by fractallyte » Thu, Apr 29, 2021, 11:55 AM UTC

hilbert42 wrote: post #314

livinginfear wrote: post #80

I consider myself a very politically informed person. I'm not a politically active person however, largely for the reasons mentioned in the article. I considered myself a liberal by the standards of the time I grew up in. My views on some social issues, particularly 'free speech', are considered a conservative now. I am one of the people the article is concerning who will not publicly voice their political opinions i…

"However, I fear the repercussions of offending others who do not have an open mind." You're dead right and it's damned terrible. I long for both formal and informal debates on many topics but without my opponents becoming annoyed or offended (as so often they do nowadays). These days it seems almost impossible to debate any subject without upsetting someone. I now long for the type of television programs that I reme…

In the good old days, there was Spitting Image, which delighted in offending everyone...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spitting_Image

Re: New evidence that British workplaces are losing viewpoint diversity

#365

Post by at_a_remove » Thu, Apr 29, 2021, 11:56 AM UTC

yerwhat01010 wrote: post #210

BiteCode_dev wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I upvoted you because I don't think you should be downvoted for expressing your opinion. But I also think we should wonder: how many white armed men were killed?

Did I express an opinion? I'm pretty sure I just quoted a statistic. But since you asked: American police kill white men (including unarmed white men) at the same rate at which they kill black men, once you control for crime rate and poverty. But police killings of white men don't become national news. Tony Timpa died in near-identical circumstances to George Floyd. Ask yourself why you haven't heard of him. Or Ryan…

I am not suggesting you are wrong, rather, I wish to promote this when I ask, do you have some really solid citations for that?

I have long suspected that the common theme in getting shot is "male" not "black," then poverty.

Re: New evidence that British workplaces are losing viewpoint diversity

#366

Post by makomk » Thu, Apr 29, 2021, 11:56 AM UTC

zozbot234 wrote: post #303

makomk wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The shift on trans rights isn't simply a shift to the left though - it's more like the mainstream/"liberal" view on trans rights has shifted and the left-wing progressive activists have been dragged along behind it, whilst insisting all the way that they were a vital spearhead of trans rights and that not agreeing uncritically with them about everything and censoring dissenting views is an attack on trans people's ex…

I have trouble describing any view wrt. trans folks as "mainstream". The dynamic you describe is quite real but it looks like the result of salami-slicing politics within progressive activism itself, rather than any discernible 'mainstream' influence.

Obviously, the mainstream isn't exactly campaigning for trans people to be treated in any particular way, but there's a kind of baseline expected level of respect for them as people that's changed over time, and I get the impression that the activists fall below that baseline - especially when compared to people of similar ages and social backgrounds who aren't proud crusaders for social justice. Not only that, the "salami-slicing politics" seems to happen after the non-activist consensus shifts to the point the consensus within the activist community is untenable, not before - of course, the activists spin this as evil bigots suddenly infiltrating their glorious community for justice, but in reality those views were the almost-unchallenged status quo up until that point. Even back when there was much less awareness of the existence of trans people, the activist community was vicious and nasty enough that I suspect it would've made mainstream people uncomfortable if actually exposed to their actions.

Also, it seems like the non-mainstream communities which acted as welcoming spaces for trans people back in the earlier days were often non-activist ones, founded around the kind of "liberal" ideas about diversity and acceptance that activists decry. Then more recently the activists used that historic support for trans people to demand some of them end that diversity and acceptance, because that's supposed to be what it means to support trans people these days.

Re: New evidence that British workplaces are losing viewpoint diversity

#367

Post by eyko » Thu, Apr 29, 2021, 11:56 AM UTC

whywhywhywhy wrote: post #356

If you live in the uk you’ll realize the only place you’ll probably hear honest viewpoints aired in public is small village pubs. The only place I’ve heard people vocally support Brexit or say anything other than support for the Labour party is when visiting relatives and going to the pub while there. I’ve never met a single supporter of Brexit or Tories outside of that. What you generally hear on the street, in medi…

I've met many supporters of Brexit in local pubs here in London, I don't think it's that uncommon. I've had work colleagues that argued for and voted for Brexit, here in London. We had fun conversations on the topic, changed our opinions on many points, but still ultimately agreed to disagree. In the meantime, the media helped polarise the debate by making it about them hating those damn "forriners" on one side, or the EU being akin to a stalinist dictatorship on the other side. The "gammons" to the right, the "remoaners" to the left.

I think the issue is that most progressives in cities in the UK live in progressive bubbles and are unlikely to come across people with very opposing viewpoints on a daily basis. They're also quite arrogant, which is something I've noticed amongst friends (most of whom are progressive). I'm a non-white EU citizen (forriner to the average brexiteer in a village pub) living in the UK so it's already a matter of fact that the majority of people I speak to are of a different identity.

If anyone gets their information about a group from what the media reports instead of from actually speaking to members of said group, then they ought to reconsider their views.

Re: New evidence that British workplaces are losing viewpoint diversity

#368

Post by thrwyoilarticle » Thu, Apr 29, 2021, 11:57 AM UTC

kewrkewm53 wrote: post #282

Many "progressive" activists are like Soviet apologists a few decades ago. Totally sure of their righteousness, blinded by their ideology, unable to accept differing viewpoints. I sure don't want to work with those who bring their hateful ideology to the workplace.

>I sure don't want to work with those who bring their hateful ideology to the workplace.

>unable to accept differing viewpoints.

Please, read what you are writing.

Re: New evidence that British workplaces are losing viewpoint diversity

#369

Post by bjourne » Thu, Apr 29, 2021, 11:57 AM UTC

livinginfear wrote: post #80

I consider myself a very politically informed person. I'm not a politically active person however, largely for the reasons mentioned in the article. I considered myself a liberal by the standards of the time I grew up in. My views on some social issues, particularly 'free speech', are considered a conservative now. I am one of the people the article is concerning who will not publicly voice their political opinions i…

I'm also a politically informed person and, unlike you, I am politically active. What can I say? It's my hobby. People go skydiving on weekends, I engage in left-wing politics. But I'm quite afraid of the possible consequences. What if a prospective employer sees me handing out flyers? What would by colleagues think? Well-paid developer and activist, how does that even work? Aren't they all unemployed and living with their moms? Fact is, many people (certainly a large number of bosses, and those are the ones whose opinions matter) think that you can't work at a private bank if you think private banking shouldn't exist.

At every workplace I've been at, liberal (as in right-wing) views have been omnipresent and shared widely. I've often had to bite my tongue. If your coworkers celebrate tax cuts because it gives them more money in their wallets you are a downer for expressing doubts on its consequences for society. Don't argue with people expressing anti-immigration views because you will be labeled a "virtue signaler".

I have no problem working with people who do not share my views. I briefly worked with someone who was a member of a Nazi group once (he didn't know I knew). It worked fine.

Re: New evidence that British workplaces are losing viewpoint diversity

#370

Post by nec4b » Thu, Apr 29, 2021, 12:01 PM UTC

youngtaff wrote: post #274

textgel wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which rights are they curtailing and how are they doing it?

Laws that affect right to protest such as the one that's currently proceeding through parliament. Anti-immigrant, anti-gay, anti-trans columns in papers like Telegraph, Mail etc.

Could you be more specific, maybe link to some examples?